2001 330i mysterious wobbling

[pie]

I have a 2001 330i purchased in what would be considered mint condition just under 10 months ago from a reputable dealer with just 52,564 miles on it. it now has 68,600 miles on it- mostly all highway miles as I drive 400 miles a week to and from work, 75 miles a day highway. It came with brand new tires 245/55 VR17 on all four when I purchased the car in July 2007.

Now, I have had the car in the shop every time it had a bump, wiggle, jump, jiggle and it has been kept in pristine shape (and I have the receipts to prove it) and it has been a delight to drive and easy to maintain as each time I bring it in to the BMW service center, I am told, "good car, nothing wrong with it, brakes are still good"- I've had an exhaust cam sensor replaced, the oil changed every 10k miles, the air filter changed before winter and then again this spring when I just got it back from a 5 day stay at the service center. No major repairs other than the power steering pump which was covered under the warranty. All minor stuff and mostly because I am a fanatic about taking care of the car.

heres the problem. In late November, I purchase snow tires for the car. 205/55-16 - all four, on rims, mounted and balanced, just needed to be bolted on.
I immediately noticed a performance difference, in the handling and the gas mileage (from 26-27 to 23-24mpg all winter). I chalked it up to the snow tires.

About 8 weeks ago- say mid March, so after 4 months and possibly 7k miles, I noticed almost a rumbling, vibration, wobbling - not sure where it was coming from but it seemed like everywhere and at higher speeds, it almost felt like a tire was going to come off.

About two weeks ago I braked quickly from a high speed and the steering wheel yanked to one side. Finally, not able to wait any longer I had the snow tires taken off at a local garage hoping it was something with the snow tires. It didn't change and so I took it in for its spring checkup and asked the service center to go over the car and find out why it was wobbling.

they had the car for 5 days. They went over it twice. They could find nothing wrong with the car. They said that the tires showed some "choppy" uneven wear and road forced balanced them but they said, could not get the car to duplicate the wobble or vibrations that I was experiencing. The suspension checked out and the brakes were still good, but they did say that the pads were at 50% (aftermarket) and that the rotors would need to be replaced when it was time to do the pads, possibly in 6 months. They said the rotors could be why it pulled when I braked hard.

I got it home and in the first day and half put 150 miles on it. By the time I was on the way home today, I was near tears, because the car is definitely wobbling/vibrating/pulsating- you can "hear" it, you can feel it in the way it handles. SO now - its doing it with the brand new tires that I took off in November -as well as having done it with the brand new snow tires that I purchased in November. I don't believe it could be the tires because it wasn't wobbling in November when I made the switch. It has to be something with the car for it to be doing it with both sets of tires.

So the question is..what could it be? and, what could it be that the authorized BMW service center couldn't find anything that would be creating this wobbly/vibrating/pulsating feeling in the car. It is most noticeable at cruising speeds of 50-70 mph.

I have two sets of brand new tires- and the most I could get out of the svc ctr was "buy new tires all the way around" as a possible fix- but I don't believe it could be the tires. Both sets combined have only 16k miles on them and they weren't cheap tires.

Any thoughts?

 

[Big Daddy]

What do you mean by "choppy", do you mean cupped? Cupped tires is a result of bad shocks and or struts. Also the rims the snows were on, were they aftermarket or BMW rims? BMW does use a hub centric wheel (rim) and if it is not mounted on the car peoperly you will get a very bad ride.

 

[Saddlebum]

I have exactly the same problem with my low mileage '99 328i. The "wobble" comes and goes. It very frustrating.

I have replaced the wheels and tires, had them trued and delicately balanced to no avail.

I'm taking it in to a top-notch specialist on Friday. I'll let you know what I find out.

A BMW knowledgeable friend of mine thinks it's the ball joints. We'll see...

 

[pie]

What do you mean by "choppy", do you mean cupped? Cupped tires is a result of bad shocks and or struts. Also the rims the snows were on, were they aftermarket or BMW rims? BMW does use a hub centric wheel (rim) and if it is not mounted on the car peoperly you will get a very bad ride.

choppy is the word they used to explain the uneven wear - on the New tires..not the snows. the tires I took off in November, before the car ever started to do this.

I read somewhere that the 01 330i series has control arm /bushings issues at aroudn 70k miles. Would this make the car vibrate / wobble?

In any event- bushings, bearings, control arm, wouldn't the Auth svc ctr have found it and fixed it knowing I'd rather pay the bill than have a car that wobbles? They swore they checked everything - suspension is tight. No front end issues. Not even an alignment is required.

My husband has 97 528- he went for a test drive with one of the mechanics and they just told him outright- bearings. So, if its something so obvious....how did it get missed?

 

[pie]

I have exactly the same problem with my low mileage '99 328i. The "wobble" comes and goes. It very frustrating.

I have replaced the wheels and tires, had them trued and delicately balanced to no avail.

I'm taking it in to a top-notch specialist on Friday. I'll let you know what I find out.

A BMW knowledgeable friend of mine thinks it's the ball joints. We'll see...

please do let me know. Something as easy as ball joints you'd think they would've just found having the car for 5 days and going over it twice.

 

[Abdoman]

please do let me know. Something as easy as ball joints you'd think they would've just found having the car for 5 days and going over it twice.

Did you take the car to the dealer or a tire and wheel shop? Experience with a particular car can be everything. I've had an issue like this where one shop couldn't figure it out, then the next shop knew exactly what it was with a quick check.

 

[Abdoman]

please do let me know. Something as easy as ball joints you'd think they would've just found having the car for 5 days and going over it twice.

I would have to assume the dealership would know if there was something wrong with the suspension, but they are not always good at tires. There are a number of things it could be - if your alignment was out on both sets of tires, it could have damaged both sets and created a wobble. You could probably find this out by rotating the tires. If the wobble increases or decreases with the rotation, then it's probably the tires. When you had the "summer" set of tires taken off, did you have them labeled for each location? If the tires are worn unevenly, putting them in different places could easily create a wobble.

Did the dealership check your alignment? I've damaged a set of tires in less than 5K miles with the alignment out.

A tire shop could give you the answer if it is the tires.

 

[pie]

Did you take the car to the dealer or a tire and wheel shop? Experience with a particular car can be everything. I've had an issue like this where one shop couldn't figure it out, then the next shop knew exactly what it was with a quick check.

I took the car to an authorized BMW service center which has the best reputation in my area and the only place that has worked on the car, (other than the power steering issue a month after I bought it that was covered under the warranty). There are two other BMW "specialists" in my area that I've never done business with.

 

[pie]

I would have to assume the dealership would know if there was something wrong with the suspension, but they are not always good at tires. There are a number of things it could be - if your alignment was out on both sets of tires, it could have damaged both sets and created a wobble. You could probably find this out by rotating the tires. If the wobble increases or decreases with the rotation, then it's probably the tires. When you had the "summer" set of tires taken off, did you have them labeled for each location? If the tires are worn unevenly, putting them in different places could easily create a wobble.

Did the dealership check your alignment? I've damaged a set of tires in less than 5K miles with the alignment out.

A tire shop could give you the answer if it is the tires.

I talked with them again today and expressly asked- did they check bushings, bearings, ball joints, control arms, alignment?? - they said yes. The car is in perfect condition.

They were going with the tires because they didn't understand that the car started the wobble around the first week of March- progressively becoming more noticeable until finally, a month later, I had the snows removed and the summer tires put on. At that point, I was thinking snows as well- but when it did not change with the new tires, I took it to the svc ctr.
It was NOT wobbling in November when I took the tires off and put on snows. It was not wobbling from November thru the first week of March - then it started. It continued to wobble, even when the summer tires were put back on.
The snows came mounted and balanced, these particular tires recommended for this particular car. They are directional and were put on properly.
No- the summer tires were inadvertantly not marked - but they were road forced balanced (?) by the svc ctr and thats when they said there was "some" uneven wear. Mind you, the summer tires have about 10k miles on them, the snows only 7k and to my eye, they look in VGC condition with little wear at all.
So-anyway, the car was wobbling with the snows and continued to wobble when the snows were removed and the original tires were put back on, even tho, the car was not wobbling when the original tires were on all last year.
Thats why I'm saying- it can't be the tires -it could be/ might be, something the snows "did" to the car, but the svc ctr is saying - the alignment is good, the suspension tight, no issues and they checked it all twice over 5 days.
At this point, I'm going back at the end of the week and going out for a test drive with the mechanic- they did test drive it - up and down the street - but I drive 65-70mph, over a 25 mile stretch two times a day and that is where its most noticeable. So, if they didn't take it out and really "drive" it - then I'm not surprised they couldn't duplicate it.
I don't doubt that they've given this car a clean bill of health, but I also don't doubt that I know what I'm feeling and its a vibration/wobbling that started with the snows in march and continues now even with last years summer tires.
Thanks for your input

 

[Abdoman]

I'm not trying to downplay your dealership, but tire shops have much more experience with tires and alignments. I recommend taking it to a different shop.

 

[Big Daddy]

You never answered my question about the rims?

 

[pie]

I'm not trying to downplay your dealership, but tire shops have much more experience with tires and alignments. I recommend taking it to a different shop.

No, I didn't think you were, its all part of troubleshooting. If I thought it was the tires, I'd take it to a tireshop. But to be the tires, that would have to mean that in November, I spent $815 on four tires on rims specifically designed for the car and they went bad in 4 months/7k miles. AND...that the new summer tires that I drove from July to November that had absolutely nothing wrong with them when I took them off in November, no wobble -nothing - on a car that was in and had been kept in pristine (ie: Fanatical) condition - suddenly went bad within one day of putting them back on the car in April. That just strikes me as impossible. If I was having issues with the summer tires in November- maybe its the tires. If it was the middle of winter and I still had the snows on - maybe its the tires. But to be the tires, it has to be all 8 tires on their own rims, mounted, balanced and road forced balanced, all that have somewhere between 7k-10k miles on them and 4-6 months of wear.On a car that has no suspension or front end issues.
That'd have to be some incredibly bad tire luck.

I know me well enough to know- if I take it to the next guy in line and don't say anything other than theres a bit of a wobble, see what you can find...the only thing I'm going to do if they do find something - is take it back to the first shop and ask them why they didn't find it. Because I trust the people that have been taking care of my car and I'm not so sure I'd trust Joes Mechanics who just happens to work on imports.
Its like my husband said- I walk in there with an open checkbook- if there was something wrong with the car- the BMW authorized svc ctr would gladly have taken my money. And I'm inclined to agree- balljoints and other suspension related stuff - if it was that , they would've just found it and fixed it. Now if Joe's Mechanics comes back and says it is the balljoints- I'd want to know why they found it and my BMW Auth. Svc Ctr didn't. I guess I wouldn't be very trusting.

I was hoping someone "knew" something else that it might be, maybe the 01 3-series with the sports pkg has some fluke that I had overlooked or that the mechanics hadn't known about.
it will all come out in the test drive because of course, I'm the only one that knew how it did drive, and how it does drive now-so - maybe the mechanic really will get in it and not feel a thing and tell me its all in my head. [headbang]

 

[pie]

You never answered my question about the rims?

sorry, I just don't know the answer. Here's how it went down. I called the Svc Mgr, he told me to just get my tires myself from tirerack.com since they were only going to get them from there and charge me more for them. He made his recommendations. My husband called tire rack, they made their recommendations and voila- I had four new snow tires on rims. Since my husband has been a BMW lover since long before me, I trusted that all involved knew what they were doing

I bought 4 - 16X7.5 Silver Painted Sport Edition A7 rims, and four 205/55VR16 Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D , mounted and balanced and then had them put on my car. As Isaid before- I did notice the car handled differently with the snows, but I was told "of course it would" -it wasn't until March that the wobbling started.

So, any feedback on that is much appreciated- could the rims have done "something?"

 

[Big Daddy]

I bought 4 - 16X7.5 Silver Painted Sport Edition A7 rims, and four 205/55VR16 Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D

Strange I thought that 17 inch wheels were standard with the 01 330i. Not that these would not work, but why would you go down in rim size? Not really asking just thinking out loud.

 

[pie]

Strange I thought that 17 inch wheels were standard with the 01 330i. Not that these would not work, but why would you go down in rim size? Not really asking just thinking out loud.

heres what I told my husband when I did the research myself last November, then got confused and threw up my hands and asked him to just do it.....

"The BMW book says for my car:

All season tires are

205/50 R17 93 H/V M+S extra load

Summer tires only are:

205/50 R17 93 W extra load OR

225/45 R17 91 W OR

On the front:
225/45 ZR17 and

On the back:

245/40 ZR17 - I have this on all four- except mine are 245/45 VR17

Winter tires are:

205/50 R 17 93 Q M+S Extra load OR

225/45 R 17 91 Q M+S

AND.....

Tirerack.com says, the preferred recommended pkg for my car is

Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 Performance Winter 205/55-16 (which isn't even recommended by BMW for this car) or they will sell me 225/45 VR17"

Then, after my husband had an actual phone conversation with them, the tire they recommended to him over the phone is the one that I got.

so yes, you're right, according to the owners manual- no where does it say 16" for this car, tirerack.com recommended it for this car. As I recall it had something to do with getting better traction (I live 1500' above the village elevation with a rear wheel drive vehicle and the hills are long and steep, sometimes in the winter you can't get up them in a FWD vehicle.)

 

[Saddlebum]

Hi Pie;

My328i was examined by our local German car specialist repair shop and their resident German mechanic declared that my intermittent wobble is caused by worn struts.

He says given the right conditions, a worn strut will allow a front tire to oscillate, causing a wobble. Since the problem is intermittent, this is his explanation.

A thorough examination of the front end revealed no worn mechanical parts like tie rod ends, ball joints, etc.

I will be replacing the struts soon and will report back.

...Keith

 

[Big Daddy]

Good information, I did mention that "choppy", cupped tires can be an indicator of worn or faulty struts.

 

[pie]

I go tomorrow to do the test drive, they've rescheduled me twice to have the "head mechanic" there with me, so I will mention this to him. I have to say, this past week I've been home and done alot more tooling around the village at 30-40mph- it is VERY noticeable at 35-40mph - much more noticeable than at the higher speeds. I just dont' very often drive around the village but being home this week, thats all I've been doing. Very little highway driving. Right around 37 with the cruise on, you can really feel the wobble. So tomorrow, I'm just going to have him set the cruise at 37 and go around the block-if he can't feel it then, perhaps they ought to just come for me with a strait jacket!