AWD necessary?

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#1
I live in MN, and am trying to decide between an AWD or RWD 330. Anyone with experience with the RWD in winter climates? Shouldn't the DSC (coupled with proper tires) get you through all but the worst winter storms?

And, on a related note, if RWD makes sense in a MN winter, does a zhp? All thoughts and opinions appreciated.
 
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#2
meester_lu said:
I live in MN, and am trying to decide between an AWD or RWD 330. Anyone with experience with the RWD in winter climates? Shouldn't the DSC (coupled with proper tires) get you through all but the worst winter storms?

And, on a related note, if RWD makes sense in a MN winter, does a zhp? All thoughts and opinions appreciated.
If you do a search, you will find a lot of opinions on this, as well as a lot of debate. Personally, I would never get AWD, and I am in a snowy area (New England). A RWD BMW w/ snow tires handles awesome in the snow, and, for the past 12 winters, has never failed me. If fair weather handling is important to you, there is a significant difference in the handling of a 3-series with the sport suspension, which is unavailable w/ AWD. IMHO, why sacrifice handling for nine months out of year when a great solution already exists for the winter months?

However, I'm sure you'll be happy with whatever you decide. Good luck!
 
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#3
You can get through the winter with RWD and snow tires, according to a lot of RWD BMW owners. I'm not one to disagree and I think if you don't mind the investment of snow tires and you prefer RWD, that's the direction you should choose. Getting a ZHP model over a regular RWD 3-series isn't going to make things worse, either (assuming you get snow tires for the ZHP as well).
 
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#4
I'll probably catch flack for this... But I actually prefer the AWD handling to the RWD handling. Yes, DSC and snow tires will probably be fine in snowy months - and if I had to do it again, I would probably buy the 325i instead of the 325xi (just to get more features). But at least for the moment I enjoy the solid feel of the xi handling. That said, the RWD does feel more "sporty".
 
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#5
I live in Cleveland, OH, everyone knows Cleveland has horrible winters.
This last years winter was pretty bad and I drove a 2003 330i with no problems at all on the factory tires. With alittle common sense you will be fine. The traction control works perfectly, I used to try an dlose control in wide open spaes and could not. Go for the rear wheel drive, the gas milage is better, the performace is better, less to go wrong, and cheaper. 4 wheel drive may come in handy a couple times a year, but it is not a necessity.
Just my opinion, if I had to buy all over again still get the 330i.
 
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#6
Thanks to those who posted -- I also searched the forum and followed some interesting debates on the subject. After reading all the posts and talking to some local bimmer owners, I've opted for the RWD (with ZHP). Delivery will hopefully come in a week!! My wife and I can't wait!
 
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#9
Congratulations on your decision, you won't be disappointed! One other thought for ya: like the guy above said, make sure you do get snow tires cuz you'll be screwed without them. But what I wanted to tell you is: TireRack sells a 16" alloy rim that will fit over the 330i calipers, and a 16" snow tire will probably cost a fraction fo an 18" snow tire!
 
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#10
commander_crash said:
I'll probably catch flack for this... But I actually prefer the AWD handling to the RWD handling. Yes, DSC and snow tires will probably be fine in snowy months - and if I had to do it again, I would probably buy the 325i instead of the 325xi (just to get more features). But at least for the moment I enjoy the solid feel of the xi handling. That said, the RWD does feel more "sporty".
I agree with you 100%. A lot of BMW enthusiasts don't agree with me, but I really think AWD is just second to none in the snow. I will also catch a lot of flack for this, but I'd rather have an AWD BMW 3-series with all-seasons tires over a RWD BMW 3-series with snow tires (when dealing with the snow). I think there is nothing like having the acceleration of all four tires and the decelaration (such as when downshifting for engine braking) of all four tires working for me.
And when I say this, I say it from A LOT of experience. I've driven RWD's, FWD's, and AWD's in the snow and I love driving my quads in the snow (one is 4WD full-time and the other is selectable 2WD/4WD). What I've noticed from 4WD is that not only do you have all four wheels working for you, but with a 4WD the vehicle literally rides on "top" of the snow, getting traction from the snow. 2WD (RWD) after some momentum starts "sinking" into deep snow due to small traction loss and then you end up losing your intertia and you're completely stuck. I have done thorough experiments with my quads in the snow (and from driving various cars in the snow) and my opinion is based on that.
 
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#11
Thanks to Xmas for his tip -- I saw the 16" post on another thread. Have you actually mounted tires and fit the rims to the car to make sure the rotor will accept them?

Regarding the AWD vs. RWD debate, I think it all comes down to your own personal comfort level with the associated risk. For maximizing grip (an important thing in low-traction environments) having 4 wheels doing the work is superior to having only two, period. Its simple physics. However, that doesn't mean that you can't get by with only two wheels assuming they have the approrpiate tires. You have to adjust your driving accordingly. The trade off for the increased sure-footedness in the snow is more weight, and thus less performance, and the different handling characteristics associated with a pure RWD car. If your personality is such that you value the comfort of knowing you've got maximum grip, then AWD is the way to go. If you instead value increased performance on dry pavement due to less weight and the handling characteristics of a RWD car, and you are willing to adjust your driving in the snow, then RWD will get you through.

For me, there aren't that many days in a typical MN winter where you get so much snow that the roads become impossible to navigate (knock on wood) -- the plows get out quickly, and they lay down so much salt that there is usually decent road surface available. For me, decent road surface, good snow tires, and a good DSC system translate into getting where I need to go, perhaps slowly, but safely. And when the weather is too crappy, I'll work from home or take my wife's XC70.
 
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#13
meester_lu said:
Regarding the AWD vs. RWD debate, I think it all comes down to your own personal comfort level with the associated risk. For maximizing grip (an important thing in low-traction environments) having 4 wheels doing the work is superior to having only two, period. Its simple physics. However, that doesn't mean that you can't get by with only two wheels assuming they have the approrpiate tires. You have to adjust your driving accordingly. The trade off for the increased sure-footedness in the snow is more weight, and thus less performance, and the different handling characteristics associated with a pure RWD car. If your personality is such that you value the comfort of knowing you've got maximum grip, then AWD is the way to go. If you instead value increased performance on dry pavement due to less weight and the handling characteristics of a RWD car, and you are willing to adjust your driving in the snow, then RWD will get you through.
Truly great points. Just to add an interesting point, I was reading this magazine article (one of the regular car mags, Road & Track or Motor Trend or something) where they stated how most people acutally prefer FWD over RWD. This is because when it comes to driving in the snow, if there is traction loss they don't want their cars fish-tailing all over the place as it scares most regular drivers.
 
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#14
That's very true up here in the frozen tundra -- few RWD cars will be found on the road, and I, up until now, have favored FWD cars due to the better low-traction performance (traction being directly proportional to the weight over the drive wheels) and less likelihood of losing the back end. But my wife's Volvo makes me a believer in DSC -- while its un-nerving the first time to have the car take over to prevent a skid, it makes me believe that proper tires and a DSC will get you through what old man winter throws at me.

And, now that I've had 12 hours of my 330 with ZHP under my belt, I can't imagine going back. God, is it fun. I can't imagine what its going to be like once the car is broken in and I can actually use all the peformance under the skin. My wife is already making plans to dump the Volvo.
 

epj3

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#15
I had NO problems this past winter (with multiple 6 - 12" storms) with my 1988 325is. The older bmw's are the HARDEST and WORST in the snow. I have no DSC or anything, just ABS (Which does save my ass). I did absolutely great in the snow. Better than most SUV's!!
 
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#16
Who really want to have to change out their wheels/tires twice a year, go for the AWD. I have a 330i RWD but live in NC where the winters are not too bad. Last year we go snow and that RWD was a little lose. Having said that, if you get a clear road it is really fun cornering in the snow, the back end will really go out there!
 

Bmw 325i 7803

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#17
330i and like it said:
Who really want to have to change out their wheels/tires twice a year, go for the AWD. I have a 330i RWD but live in NC where the winters are not too bad. Last year we go snow and that RWD was a little lose. Having said that, if you get a clear road it is really fun cornering in the snow, the back end will really go out there!
I drove a 325i RWD with all season Michelins... I had no problems driving carefully and accelerating and turning like Granny. I even could reverse through 4-5" of freshly fallen snow simply by slowly backing up and if you feel the wheels slipping (DSC won't let you screw up too much, it won't spin the wheels digging you a ditch) simply move forward a little, then back up again. It's all about your gut feeling and personal experience, I know I never got stuck and I'm a lazy driver who doesn't change tires and rims for the winter. I feel drving my Bimmer is a privilage and don't care how long it takes me to get there, meaning I have ample time to drive slow and enjoy sitting in the car. [thumb]
 
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#19
commander_crash said:
The true solution for all of us is of course to have a RWD BMW car for fun and an AWD BMW for anytime when the weather gets bad. I suggest that BMW starts a Buy-1-Get-1-Free type program.
I couldn't agree more. [:o)]
 
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#20
330i and like it said:
Who really want to have to change out their wheels/tires twice a year, go for the AWD.
All things being equal, I would agree with you, but if you had owned BMW's both with and without the sport suspension, you would have a true appreciation for the handling difference, and the relatively small hassle of swapping out wheels/tires would be nothing compared to the handling sacrifice you would be making with AWD. Granted, handling may not be important to everyone, but I just wanted to share the other sign of the coin..
 


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