Performance ECU chip?

[ldzpstnr]

Hello.

I am looking at getting a performance chip for my ECU, an '87 325 with a 2.7eta. The only problem I have with them is that they require 91 octane fuel. Right now 91 octane fuel here in Oregon is $1.85 with no signs of it getting any cheaper anytime soon. I noticed BMP Design offers custom E-prom chips so I called them earlier today and asked about a high performance chip designed to run on 87 octane fuel. They claim they cannot program a chip to run on the lower fuel grade. I even asked if I ran a lower thermostat if then I could run the cheaper fuel and they said again no. BMP said the reasons why the 91 octane fuel is required because the engine will ping. Well doesnt the motronic system on a m20 have knock sensors?

Basically I want a performance chip for my ECU that will run on 87 octane fuel and not hurt anything. I know there wont be as big power gains as with the 91 octane fuel, but 5 or so horsepower is not really that big of a loss if I am saving money with the less expensive fuel.

I do understand that 91 octane fuel is better on an engine then the lesser fuels. But with how expensive fuel is nowadays(and its just going to get higher) I cannot make myself pay $0.20 more per gallon. Thats an extra $2 dollars a tank. I am poor unfortuantly .

SO anyways, thanks for the help.

 

[nadroj]

The chip from my understanding remaps the rpm ranges to be optimised with 91 or higher octane so you will need to use the 91 you also will be getting better gas milage so you might be saving money by going with teh more expensive gas

 

[hyperollah]

the chip requires 91 because the chip changes the timing and air/gas mixtures of the engine so if you use the lower fuels you might get preignition or pinging. very bad! the cylinder will combust before the spark. once you get the chip the engine will run with higher performance so you need higher performance gas. for this reason i did not to get the chip, however recently i have tried 89 and 91 octane and there is a difference. the 89 and 91 are a whole lot smoother especially on cold mornings or if you havent driven you car in a long time. go for suspension and drivetrain mods like an lsd conversion. the lsd makes a great difference from the regular slip and adds the the fun driving experience.

 

[bichmgnt]

How dare you have High Performance aspirations when you're poor!

What I've heard is that the original chip is programmed for high performance with 87 octane. The only way to get more power out is by remapping it to use 91 octane. If BMW could have safely gotten more power out with 87 octane they would have.

Steve

 

[AutoXfreak]

I dont want to sound arrogant (and I am a college student so I know about being poor), but If you want performance you have to pay for it. Especially in the M20's I dont have a chip and I always run 91. I ran 87 once and heard the car pinging. The car was also way down on power so, sorry man but ya wana go fast, you better be willing to shell out the money, plain and simple!!! [bmwkick]

 

[ldzpstnr]

Well thanks guys. This info is helping

I understand that the oringianl BMW chip is designed for max performance on 87 octane fuel, but what about emissions? From what I read the stock chip is also tuned for the least amount of emissions, wich takes away horsepower. So if the stock chip is set for the least emissions possible that means it takes away some horsepower. I do not care for the emission standards, this may mark me as evil but I plan to take the cat. converter off within a month or two . No emission tests or inspections in my part of Oregon.

From what I read people are reporting about a 3 mpg increase with an aftermarket chip. This will about equal out the cost in fuel I think. I can pick a used chip on ebay for less then $100, yes I know used on ebay but they are also garunteed(spelling) and have good feedback from other buyers.

I know I gotta shell out money to get some serious performance. My motor has 175k on it now, when its due to be rebuilt at 300k or whatever I plan to stroke it up to a 2.9L kit and maybe put on a custom fuel injection system. I found the 2.9L kit for $2000, that includes everything but gaskets I think. So I figure $2500 for a rebuilt and built to the nuts m20 for $2500 is not to bad of deal.

As for the chip I might as well buy one off ebay and try it. If I dont like it I can just put the old chip back in. Hey, is there any way to get around the rev limiter witht the stock chip?

My car never pings on 87 octane fuel. I see you are from Colorado AutoXfreak, whats your elevation? Is there any methonal in your fuel there like california? Here in oregon to my knowledge there is no methonal added. That may make a difference also.

Any more opinions guys? I am listening and learning, thanks.

 

[bichmgnt]

If you want more gas to get to the engine the only way to do it is to put bigger injectors in. The engine starts to lean out at the top end because the 'right sized' injectors can't keep up. You'll also need to get more air into the engine. That means a bigger AFM and a modified intake. Altogether that's about $800 or $900. But you will still want the chip. A chip alone should get you 10-15 hp. With everything I think you can get an extra 20-25 hp, maybe 30 hp if you're lucky, and only at one particular RPM. Pretty much all the chips will keep your car within spec because the engine is designed to work best that way. These are efficient engines that can go fast if the chip is set up right and you use good fuel.

This is an eta? I don't know if you can do the bigger AFM mod very easily. Or the intake. I'd have to do some reasearch.

A chip is the most cost effective performance booster you can get. While some say they get better mileage after they install a chip, those people are weenies who only drive their car to church on Sundays. For us regular people who put a chip in, we start putting dents in the floor pan because the accelerator pedal starts hitting the floor a lot harder. Doesn't do much for your mileage that way.

Which chip should you get? Most would say the Jim Conforti chip for $250. It might only be $200 for the eta. He's got the best rep as far as getting the most out of what you got. If you get one off ebay you can't be sure of what you're getting. A lot of times you get what you pay for. I had a chip put in my 86 325es (I think Dinan) and the difference was marginal. I put the JC chip in my 91 325iC and the difference was remarkable.

If you plan on driving another 125k miles before rebuilding (not unreasonable) you've got a good 5-10 years before you're going to get to it. The money you spend on the chip will be minimal compared to the routine maintenance you will have to do during that time. But the fun factor will be priceless.

For that matter you might even get a different car to stroke out if you're going to spend that kind of cash on the engine. You have to consider that the suspension will also require some serious modifications/upgrades for car to be able to drive well. You're going to want to put at least a couple grand in parts on the suspension. After 300k miles all the rubber, shocks, springs and sway bars as well as a bunch of little stuff will have to be changed out. Or maybe at that point a newer bimmer with better performance may be all you need.

Rev limiter is built into the chip. My JC chip got me an extra 700-800 RPM on the top end. And a lot more fun at every turn.

I pretty much believe you will remember the quality long after you forget about the price. If it was me I would get the best chip I could afford, suck up the cost of the premium gas, and forget about doing anything else for a long time.

Besides, if you were really worried about money you'd stop smoking the da kine bud and save your cash, you stoner. You could be putting that engine in next year.

Led Zeppellin Rules.



Steve

 

[KC Ron Carter]

Hmm,

Lots of opinions:

All trying to help but lots of bad information

The ETA engine with a 027 OE chip will run 87 octane.

The ETA engine with any chip I have seen will run fine on 87 octane.

The issue is carbon build up, and the engine will detonate on any fuel as the carbon raises the compression ratio and provides a hot spot causing early igntion.

Adding larger injectors and changing the AFM are not performance modifications, you may as well bolt a tornado in the inlet and claim more HP.

The o2sensor keeps the mixture at 14.7 to 1 and nothing else changes. If getting a richer mixture was a good deal on power then the car would run better when the o2 sensor is failed and the mixture is richer. With a failed o2 senor the car runs terrible and after 1000 miles the catalyst is clogged and the engine will fail to run.

Any ETA engine in good condition will run on 87 octane fuel with a brand name or a good clone chip.

Yes I have owned an ETA since 1984, yes I am ASE certified, and yes I have a Dyno in my basement.

Any one having issues on running 87 octane gasoline on a USA ETA engine, should consider the following procedure to fix it.

It is a manufacture provided service procedure to flash the combustion chamber with steam to force the carbon to break free from the piston face and valve face.

With the engine at normal operating temperature and approximately 2000 RPM, allow the engine to ingest by a vacuum hose 12 oz soda can of water.

A puff of steam and the carbon is gone.

The ChevRON TechRON is to clean the back side or tulip of the valve
and all components on the fuel path, of varnish.

You can use as often as needed.

This is a must deal if you are near a pinging point and using forced induction.

Later,

 

[bichmgnt]

Re: Hmm,

Adding larger injectors and changing the AFM are not performance modifications, you may as well bolt a tornado in the inlet and claim more HP.

I agree. But the intake is a performance mod. The injectors and AFM would be there in a supporting role.

I have to admit, I don't know about the eta in particular and I may have been mistaken about assuming that the injectors were 'right sized' on that engine. They are on the M20 and in order to get much more power out of that engine it needs bigger injectors. Otherwise they start to hit the top end of their duty cycle and the fuel/air mixture tends to lean out at high RPM.

I also don't know that modified intakes for the eta are readily available but I do know that it's a good bolt-on mod for the M20.

The o2sensor keeps the mixture at 14.7 to 1 and nothing else changes.

Accurate again. That is what I meant when I said the chip would keep the car within spec. Your explanation of it is much better. It may have been assumed that I meant the injectors and intake mods would change the fuel /air ratio. This was unintentional and I apologize for any confusion.

Premium gas? Regular? I believe whatever you say, especially for the eta. You'd know better than most. I like the soda water maintenance. I had a Dogde that I wanted to clean up and put kerosene in it instead of oil and drove it aound the block a few times. Don't know really if it cleaned up the inside of the engine at all butthat engine always ran great. Sometimes things that don't seem right on the surface are a good thing to do.

Yes I have owned an ETA since 1984, yes I am ASE certified, and yes I have a Dyno in my basement.

So what HP gains have you seen with various mods?

I still say the chip is the best bang for the buck out there and that a cloned chip will not necessarily get the best performance.

Steve

 

[ldzpstnr]

Thanks for the reply guys.

I am going to try that soda can steam idea. I have heard other tricks with water like this before but that sounds the most simple.

I was thinking the ETA engine would be able to handle a good aftermarket chip and still run on 87 octane fuel. Hell, from what I read the engine was designed to run on not so good fuel and still perform good.

I will do a AFM conversion. The inlet size of the stock unit from the airbox was the same size as my '85 318i with a 1.8 liter m10. I think they are the same units, or very very similar. The M30 one has a bigger inlet so that means it will flow more air. The stock injectors do not flow enough at high rpms. I will be upgrading those eventually too.

Those JC chips sound like the best. But for now a cheap one from ebay will work just fine I think. They are going for $40 or less.

FYI. The 2.7 ETA m20 engine can be made to run real fast. Aplina had a B3 version of the E30 cabrio with an ETA 2.7 that cranked out 200 HP and like 205 ftlbs of torque. The factory crankshaft, connecting rods, and valve springs are low rpm units.... they begin to fail above 5,000 rpm suposivly. Those parts, cylinder head(combustion chambers to be exact), and pistons are the difference in the 2.7 ETA and 2.5 I engine. The "I" engine has domed chambers while the ETA has more conventional "flat or quench" chambers. If I worded things wrong my apologies.

Oh and by the way, I live in Oregon man. We have a medical card program here. I hope to do a nice m20 stroker engine in three years or so. I drive a lot usually, up to 40k a year. Later guys. Thanks.

 

[chucko]

I had a Racing Dynamics performance chip in my 325i and used 87 octane for several years.......until the timing belt snapped(only 40Kmiles) and ruined my engine. I started with 91 and realised I couldn't afford it so I just put 87 in it. No pinging or anything.

 

[bichmgnt]

ldzpstnr,

My apologies for lumping you in with the hippies and freaks. I hope your medical condition improves to the point where you no longer need the pernicious weed. If not, Led Zeppellin still rules!

What I said about the suspension still applies. 300k miles is a lot for a car and the suspenion will need a good freshening especially if you want to drive faster. The fun factor goes way up with a major suspension upgrade.

Steve

 

[ldzpstnr]

No problem Tomahawk, I didnt take offense one bit . And yes Led Zeppelin does rock. Seen Page and Plant in portland back in 1999. I heard they may go on tour again.

Yes I do plan to go through the suspension also. I love the E30, to me its one of the best cars ever built. For that reason I plan to drive E30's for as long as I can.

I dont know if I will ever lower the car, I sometimes take it on some pretty bumpy dirt roads. I did see that BMP Design does offer some coil spring perches that lower the car by like 10MM I think. THat is as far down as I will go I think. I do plan to get some nice Bilstien sport shocks and a strut tower brace first.

But I do not know how far I will go witht he suspension. I am going to make the 325 into a nice fast street car. I do plan to make an E30 race car, but I am going to play with the old M10 four cylinder.... I have three complete engines allready, including a ready to be built '78 2.0 liter. Those M10's are bullet proof.

If you have any other suspension upgrade ideas that I am missing let me know. Again I want a nice street car, tight suspension but not to harsh. This is a daily driver.

Later

 

[hyperollah]

that will be a nice ride i hope. make sure you get good stopping power too. the power and speed will get you going faster but if you are going to zip around the streets them brakes heat up like crazy. good luck!

 

[ldzpstnr]

Oh yea, I forgot to mentioned that I allready have bought nice brake rotors. I got some Zimmerman Crossed drilled rotors for $60 a piece for the fronts. I just got some replacements for the rear since 80% stopping power goes to the front. Now I am just going to watch ebay and some parts house websites for any super deals on some good performance pads . It is not really all that expensive to hop up. I figure my E30's would handle as well if not better then my '87 Z28 HO Camaro that I had, and it was lowered two inches.

The E30 is one great car.

Later