325i vs. TSX

[brooksidegolfer]

Right now the 325i is selling at invoice (see carsdirect.com).
With automatic, power seats, leather, moonroof and zenon, the carsdirect price is $31,700. This is the lowest price I've seen for the 325i with the above options.

I also love the TSX. You can get a non-NAV TSX for around $26,000 (but loaded of course). Of course the money savings are an issue, but not the main issue.

I'm probably a very mild driver compared to most of you. For example, I prefer the softer driving feel of the non-Sports Packaged 325i. I also like the TSX drive as well.

Of course you guys are all BMW enthusiasts, but any thoughts are appreciated. Hopefully some of you seriously considered the TSX.

Summary:

TSX pluses:
-I love the snug feel of interior.
-Interior feels more luxurious.
-Less $$$
-More reliable.

325i pluses:
-Slightly better driving experience.
-Slightly better exterior styling (this is very subjective so less important).

I am leaning towards the TSX.

 

[dumayou]

if you like the tsx go for it..just buy what you like..tsx is great car..but you really can't compare Acura with BMW..it's all personal taste..I say go for it. good luck

 

[Bryan330i]

Both are good choices. I am starting to question carsdirect.com. I have always thought this was a great way to buy but it looks to me like they could be having some problems lately. I would make certain they can get that price for the BMW. I started a purchase a while back and they basically just dropped the whole deal midpoint.

 

[epj3]

I'd say the BMW will drive much much better in the long run - it IS rear wheel drive, and has some of the best brakes in the world, but the BMW is a little bit more raw in pretty much every aspect as you have said.

Also, I don't know why you say it's more reliable?? I have no problem with my 178,000 mile 1988 325is... never ever let me sit but I do take care of it. If you only plan on buying a car that is still under their warranty and maintainence program, just make sure you get it from a DEALER who has loaner cars. Then it won't really make a difference.

I would say go with what you think you will like more in the long run.

 

[Abdoman]

There are some good deals on the 325 right now. It's a hard decision for someone that doesn't care if the car is FWD. If you don't plan on keeping the car past it's warranty, I would purchase the BMW, otherwise the TSX.

My friend just purchased a manual TSX and I was very impressed. The car is very nice and has lots of great options at a great price.

 

[codex57]

If you're just a mild driver, you may like the TSX more. The BMW's main advantage is the overall driving experience. Competitors come close, but none really match it. I haven't tested out the TSX, but I imagine it to be like all the other Hondas. The body of a BMW seems more solid, but most people could care less. If that's not something that you care about, then go for the TSX. You have to want to pay the premium for a BMW for whatever reason. I had my reasons. Lots of other people can't find that reason.

 

[JTravick]

I've owned and Acura. They are great cars -- but it's all about the driving experience--the feel of the car-- and the excitement to drive everytime I start it up. I'm glad when the wifee sends me out for milk, eggs, diapers,feminine products...whatever it is -- I'm willing and eager to go now...just to take my BMW out for another spin. Also, im still complimented on my BMW on regular basis --

 

[brooksidegolfer]

I think I lean towards the Acura because I am not a driving enthusiast of the highest order. I love driving - but driving in a comfy sedan with some sports appeal. The non-sport packaged 325i is smooth enough for me, yet my thinking is unless you really enjoy the sport packaged kind of driving, the premium I must pay for the 325i is not worth it.

Any other folks who cross shoppped between a TSX and 325 or other comparable cars?

 

[codex57]

I cross shopped a 325 and G35 as well. Ended up being a photo finish. You should really check that car out. IS300 was there, but I didn't like it.

 

[brahtw8]

I have driven multiple examples of E46 325is and Acura TSXs. I considered both (more 330xi than 325i) when I replaced my E36 325i with a 2004 TL last December.

I think the TSX is a superior car to the E46 325i. It feels every bit as solid and is a much better value. It also has excellent balance and handling, as demonstrated by its out of the box success against RWD 325cis in the Speed Touring series.

I watched a TSX blow away (led from start to finish) a field of RWD BMWs (some, like Auberlen, saddled with much reward weight) at Road America a couple of weekends ago (although it was ultimately disqualified due to a minor technical infraction currently under protest). Even the BMW drivers acknowledge the quality of that car. Bill Auberlen had a lot of good things to say about the TSX in his most recent column in Roundel, and they currently sit 2nd in Speed Touring manufacturer's standings, behind BMW.

The TSX does not suffer from the same torque steer characteristics as the heavier, more powerful TL. It is a very nice car to drive and I think most of you would be hard pressed not to acknowledge its virtues if you drove one back to back with an E46 325i.

For me, the E46 325i, like an E39 525i or E60 525, is not the epitome of BMW. The heart of the BMW is the engine, and the 2.5 liter six is just not up to the task of spiriting around a 3400+ pound car. It was sufficient in my 3100 pound E36 325i, particularly when modded, but it just doesn't compete at today's level.

I do prefer the low end torque of the BMW, but the TSX is ultimately more powerful and as quick if not quicker than the BMW, with both being low 7 second to sixty, 15 second quarter mile cars.

I think it is difficult to make a case for the objective superiority of an E46 325i over a TSX. Subjectively one can choose anything, but most objective evaluations will likely favor the TSX.

 

[MrElussive]

I think the TSX would serve as a better overall buy. The 325i will provide a better driving experience and seems to offer more luxury (inside and out). But the TSX's price is great, Honda/Acura reliability is second to none, and the TSX is just a really well-made car that definitely delivers.
Just because the car is cheaper, doesn't mean it's less "solid" or a lesser car. Remember that with BMW premium, you also pay for the free maintenance for 50K miles.

 

[Section_8]

The heart of a bmw is not only it's engine, but it's overall characteristics - 50/50 balance, followed closely by exceptional handling and driver/road feel. Tag on a taste of luxury and you're getting close. The TSX is 60/40 weight distribution - I'd think the car would have symptoms of torque steering, but I'll take your word for it.

The 325i weighs 3209 pounds, with a full tank and driver. (3300 or so with auto transmission). It's LESS than the TSX's manual weight of 3240. I've heard that BMW is one of the only manufacturers to give their spec weights with full tank and passenger (IE: the Acura's weight is with no gas, no passenger). This may not be true, even if it isn't the 325i weights a few pounds less.

I have not driven stock versions both back to back, but I have driven a TSX once during lunch (one of my guys that works for me just bought one). He let me drive us back from lunch last week to see how it felt (I like them visually, good looking car!). I felt totally disconnected from the road, I didn't get to really give it a real spin to see how it handled corners, but it wasn't the 'feel' I expected. Truly I could have been in a Accord, or a Solara and wouldn't have known the difference from feel and looks, if I didn't know better.

That 2.5l does a fine job of pulling me around, the times BMW posts are subjective as well, they are consistantly found to be higher then actual times - but probably every car manufacturer is wary of posting anything but times that are possible by 'normal' drivers in 'normal' conditions for the most part.

I think you're being a bit subjective yourself about the comparision, being a Acura owner times 2, but I'm probably doing the same for the 325i (and us forgotten 323 owners). I certainly do not think a TSX is better in any fashion then a 325i. A TL yes, a TL is even a 330i contender.

I end this with:
BMW - RWD 50/50 balance - 3209 lbs 184hp 2.5 inline 6 - 6 1/2 yr old technology
TSX - FWD 60/40 balance - 3240 lbs - 200hp 2.4 inline 4 - 1 year old technology

Even if the BMW isn't a little faster (I contend it is, and even better if you take them to the track side by side and did consistant testing - any car can have it's day mind you), it's holding it's own vs brand new cars w/ new technology. Congrats to Acura for catching up, wait till next year's BMW releases.

 

[brahtw8]

These debates remain largely semantic. We can argue about the essence of BMW for eons without getting anything resolved. Certainly they have made a point to build cars with great balance and handling, but the inline six has been their soul for a long time, even while they have shifted to V8 and V10 performance engines.

The TSX has little or no torque steer because it has little or no torque and no LSD in the front.

The TSX isn't perfect, to be sure, but it is far more capable than many people perceive it to be, with their RWD uber alles mentality. Any doubts about the TSX handling have been resolved by its performance in Speed Touring, IMHO.

As for the rest, don't let my current 2 Acura garage give you the wrong impression. I am a former and future BMW-owner with a lot of experience with and enthusiasm for the blau mit weiss, as has been demonstrated on this forum to anyone foolish enough to question it (read bimmerman11). If anything, I remain BMW-biased, not Acura biased, and can provide plenty of posts from Honda forums demonstrating just that (not that you care or I am going to bother to do so).

Finally, while the TSX was introduced relatively recently, the engine in the TSX has been powering the RSX Type-S since MY 2002, so call it three year old technology, versus the M52B25TU 2 Vanos in the 325i (introduced MY 2001), which is somewhat different than the M52B25TU 1 Vanos in your car, introduced in the 1998 MY E36 323is. (I may be a bit off on the engine nomenclature, as I don't pay attention to all of the many, recent variations of the M52, but you get the point).

For me, value is the primary difference between the two cars. You can option the BMW to the level of equipment the TSX has standard, but it will raise the sticker to the $33-35k range, not including Navi. That and my passions are simply not aroused by BMW's more pedestrian cars, and thus given the choice between those two models, for a daily driver, I choose the TSX. I wouldn't choose either for a weekend/track car, nor would most anyone in their right mind . . .

 

[ddone]

Doesn't the MY2002 RSX Type-S use a 2.0L four while the TSX uses a 2.4L four based off of the 2.4L used in the CRV? I thought that the TSX engine was brand new for the TSX.

 

[brahtw8]

You are probably correct.

I must confess to be less knowledgable of TSX specs than I should be, but the car didn't do it for me hence I got the TL and haven't looked back at the TSX. I don't follow the rest of the Acura line in quite the same way I do the BMW marque.

The 'argument' over engine geneology was pointless anyways. You can legitimately choose either car. I happen to think the TSX is a better value and that the 325i doesn't offer a whole lot more to justify the increase in price, as opposed to those in the BMW lineup that do justify the premium pricetag.

 

[///M SPEED]

Well said brahtw8. Nice to hear from you again as well. I love reading your posts. Keep them coming.....

 

[BMWdude]

Do people never learn? With BMW, part of the premium you are paying is for this:

Yes, the little roundel on your car that even makes owners of 50k SUVs jealous (unless they have the X-series )

 

[MrElussive]

Yeah, but I don't choose a car that will make people jealous....I usually prefer cars that look great, but don't stand out in a crowd.

 

[brahtw8]

. . . at least you drove home in a BMW.

. . . you would have had him in the twisties.

Yes, there is a certain amount of value in the blau mit weiss, but I don't think it is particularly intelligent to choose an automobile for no other reason than the badge. I ended with my current vehicles because of the way they drove, and less so because of the badge, as was also true of my E36.

Don't get me wrong, I love the badge, but the cars are the reason I love the badge, not the other way around . . .

 

[Uncle Rusty]

Wow! I'm impressed!

When I clicked on this message thread, I fully expected to read arguments back and forth. You know, Honda!, no BMW, No Honda, etc... But to my surprise I found intelligent and insightfull messages in abundance! Please don't feel offended, my perception is at fault, not anyone here. From now on I will be thinking highly of BMWboard! You are great!

I've got a little more than a year until I have enough for the 325i that I'm planning to buy. Thanks for the great insights!