cold morning start problem

O

orics3200

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#1
my car is 2000 (323i) w/ 56k miles. Im from Chicago, every morning im
experiencing cold start problem. My car would start with no problem but
it would shake and check engine light would illuminate. I alreaddy check the
and change the gas cap w/c is considered one of the cause.

i brought my car to the dealer last 2 wks. ago. they check & run the codes in the computer and find out that there is a mis fire on cylinder 1 and 3. they
check the coils and the plugs. they said that they are in nominal condition,
so, they swap coil 1 to 3 and 4 to 6 and check engine went off and clear the
the codes for mis fire.

For a while the car runs fine in a cold winter Chicago morning, but after 2 weeks
im experiencing the same cold start problem. every morning when i start the car
the car would shake and check engine will illuminate and if i turn off the ignition
and start the car again no check engine and as if no rough idling compare to the
first start.

Anyone, experiencing the same problem? Please help....
i already change the spark plug (NGK'S). fuel filter, air filter and according to the
dealer my battery is okay.

orics
 
Wadula

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sorry to hear, but unfortunately i have no clue. seems as if you tried everything and as if also the dealer did more or less his homework. the only thing i could imagine is, that there is a problem with (and now i am missing the word) the valve or unit that regulates the cold start procedures. i heard about that in older cars.

that you seem to have problems with the cyliner firing is too bad. did you check if the lines to the plugs are okay? maybe they are wet or not properly attached to coil and/or plug?
 
bmwrocks

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I have heard of the coils themselves going bad. I am wondering why the dealer did a swap of coils and the problem went away???? If they are in nominal condition what does the swap accomplish? Must be some kind of trick to get the code to reset.....maybe.

Could it be the coils are intermittently failing? I think the coils could be bad on 1 and 3.
 
Kirby

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It sounds like they should read the codes again. If the codes now indicate a misfire in 3 and 6, then it would be the coils as the problem moved with the coils. If the codes still indicate 1 and 3 the mystery continues, but it would imply a fuel (injectors) or mechanical problem.
 
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northyork

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Sounds exactly what happened to my car and coincidentally it happened while I was visiting Chicago.

Anyway, dealership told me it was my Crank Case Ventilator or Oil seperator. I believe this is better known as the PCV valve. Than they told me this wasn't covered under warranty and it would cost me $600 in parts and labor. Might be worth mentioning to your service dept. I would be curious to hear their response.

Cheers!
 
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orics3200

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tanx, for your reply...
I have notice the car starts to shake after 30 secs. when i start the car in the morning. I read from other forums, that another cause maybe, is the ICV valve and air valve regulator. I like to do some modifications, 17" tires, H&R springs w/ konis adjustable, exchaust, intake and shark injector but im kind of hesitant to do it now until all issues has been address.

Whay kind of plugs to you recommend the Bosch plus4, Bosch plus2 or the NGK's.
I hear good things about the NGK's. What is the original plugs on that car? I heared its Bosch plus2. Do you think Bosch plus 4 are gud, i heard bad about it.
 
aNoodle

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orics3200 said:
tanx, for your reply...
I have notice the car starts to shake after 30 secs. when i start the car in the morning. I read from other forums, that another cause maybe, is the ICV valve and air valve regulator. I like to do some modifications, 17" tires, H&R springs w/ konis adjustable, exchaust, intake and shark injector but im kind of hesitant to do it now until all issues has been address.

Whay kind of plugs to you recommend the Bosch plus4, Bosch plus2 or the NGK's.
I hear good things about the NGK's. What is the original plugs on that car? I heared its Bosch plus2. Do you think Bosch plus 4 are gud, i heard bad about it.
Click to expand...
Wow, orics, I am experiencing the same problem and I have the 2.8L engine and have 130,000 miles.

Last summer I took my car in to have them look at the transmission. I complained of torque converter whine. To my complete shock, the dealership called back saying they replaced the crankcase vent valve. They said it had to be replaced and was causing the noise. I immediately went to the stealerdealership and brought my dad along...the torque converter whine was still present and had nothing to do with the dealership replacing my cranckcase vent valve...which we protested was working just fine. Damn stealerships, they just replace crap becasue of known errors and pretend that is the problem.

Anyway, ever since their "fix" i have heard a slight high pitched whistle from the engine....do you get that?

And I've been having the exact problem you are having. On real cold start ups, it starts up fine, then at some point (maybe the same 30 seconds you describe) something opens up or changes and the engine starts bucking, check engine light comes on. When I turn the engine off and restart it, all is well and the light goes out somtimes immediately, other times later in the day. Codes read misfires of certain cylnders and also general engine misfire. But once warm, the engine runs just fine.

I always thought it was the crankcase vent value which is something that regulates emmisions on cold start ups? To be honest, I wish somebody who knows engines could explain what this does.

I was thinking the delership that supposedly "fixed" my "broken" vent valve actually put in a faulty one. I hope I'm wrong. I'm just always so skeptical of stealerships, I've had so many bad experiences.

Please get back to us and let us know what they did to your car in the end.
 
Kirby

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The crankcase vent valve's primary purpose is to suck combustion gases out of the crankcase. When the engine runs, a small amount of combustion gases (basically exhaust) gets past the rings. If sealed, it would ordinarily stay in the crankcase and cause higher pressure=blown oil seals, gunk buildup, acids in the oil, etc. If it was simply vented, it would cause more pollution.

The valve uses engine vacuum to suck the gases out of the crankcase and back thru the intake. The valve only opens under higher vacuum. If it was open at low vacuum, it would cause rough running or stalling.
 
aNoodle

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Thanks, kirb. You always know your s#$%*.

So, would a malfunctioning crankcase vent valve cause something like this? Is it part of the the cold start up procedure for this to open or close at some point in the cycle?

On another idea, I was thinking it might be my camshaft postioning sensor. I had the before one replaced (another epic stealership story where they charged me $275 for a $65 part and only replaced the fore sensor, not the aft, won't bore everyone with the details of that one). Since my aft-sensor was never replaced, I'm thinking maybe that one is going and needs to be repalced. Is it possible that this sensor would cause the camshaft to be in the wrong place or the engine to think it's in the wrong place and cause bucking after a little while on cold start ups?

I understand this is only a $55 part and is right there on top. I can just unscrew it and put in the new one? Or is it more involved than I think?

Anyway, it's great to see some DIY talk in the E46 section...we've all been under warranty for so long, we haven't had much car talk.
 
Kirby

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It's possible that it could cause be the problem. If it opens too wide when the engine is at idle or low speed, it will would essentially cause a major vacuum leak. I think normally the valve should open fully only under high engine vacuum. At least, that's how they used to work in the older cars.
 
O

orics3200

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tanx guys....Yup im also experiecing a slight pitched whistle just like yours (ANoodle). You mentioned about the camshaft position sensor ? I have one replaced also last year (exchaust part) by an independent shop they charged $300 plus. So, maybe is about time to change the intake camshaft position sensor.

Back to our problem (cold start problem). I just start my car yesterday morning and as usuall the car starts fine w/ no problem (one click) but after 15-20 secs. it would shake a little w/ a weird noise coming from the engine and check engine light would illuminate. I turn off the engine and start the car once again but check engine light would not turn off. Im planning to go to autozone today to check and run the codes because i don't have a code reader. Im planning to change the two bad coils 1 and 4 next wk. w/c register a misfire during my last visit to the dealer which they only swap 1 to 3 and 4 to 6 and might as well change my spark plugs
w/c i just change last year w/ NGK's. What brand you recommend the bosch platinum 4 or the NGK's?

It just sad to think that my BMW 323i w/ 56K miles experiencing cold start problem w/c i parked on the garage, w/c i deligently change the oil and other fluids on time compare to my 2000 mitsubishi galant w/c also has gud maintence record w/120K miles that is parked on the street w/ snow and salts all over its body but not exeperiencing any problem at all. I like my bimmer a lot, im planning to keep it for a long time and maybe in the future do some upgrades 17' tire, Konis ajustable w/ H&R sports spring, performance exchaust, intake and shark injector but im kinf of hesitant at this time until all issues is cleared.

orics
 
Talk2USoon

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the only thing i could imagine is, that there is a problem with (and now i am missing the word) the valve or unit that regulates the cold start procedures. i heard about that in older cars.
<<<

Yep. I have '94 530i that's been doing that for several winters now. No mechanic has been able to get to the bottom of it. Drives me nutz!
 
S

Schumi

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aNoodle said:
Wow, orics, I am experiencing the same problem and I have the 2.8L engine and have 130,000 miles.

Last summer I took my car in to have them look at the transmission. I complained of torque converter whine. To my complete shock, the dealership called back saying they replaced the crankcase vent valve. They said it had to be replaced and was causing the noise. I immediately went to the stealerdealership and brought my dad along...the torque converter whine was still present and had nothing to do with the dealership replacing my cranckcase vent valve...which we protested was working just fine. Damn stealerships, they just replace crap becasue of known errors and pretend that is the problem.

Anyway, ever since their "fix" i have heard a slight high pitched whistle from the engine....do you get that?

And I've been having the exact problem you are having. On real cold start ups, it starts up fine, then at some point (maybe the same 30 seconds you describe) something opens up or changes and the engine starts bucking, check engine light comes on. When I turn the engine off and restart it, all is well and the light goes out somtimes immediately, other times later in the day. Codes read misfires of certain cylnders and also general engine misfire. But once warm, the engine runs just fine.

I always thought it was the crankcase vent value which is something that regulates emmisions on cold start ups? To be honest, I wish somebody who knows engines could explain what this does.

I was thinking the delership that supposedly "fixed" my "broken" vent valve actually put in a faulty one. I hope I'm wrong. I'm just always so skeptical of stealerships, I've had so many bad experiences.

Please get back to us and let us know what they did to your car in the end.
Click to expand...

Damn those stealerchips, ii had my car on a regular service, and they told me they needed to fix something else cause it was starting to wear out and couldnt wait to next service. How lame is that? They didnt even call me first :(
 
O

orics3200

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what do you think about the coils on the E46? I heared they kind of problematic and they fail pretty soon, especially in a colder weather climate. I know a lot of E46 owner's that the dealer just swap them or change them on their warranty period. Some change the coils a lot of times on their first 30k miles and same with volkswagen and audis w/c has thesame manufacturer (BREMIS). I heard BREMIS are bad and BOSCH are OKAY...

any inputs????

orics
 
aNoodle

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orics3200 said:
what do you think about the coils on the E46? I heared they kind of problematic and they fail pretty soon, especially in a colder weather climate. I know a lot of E46 owner's that the dealer just swap them or change them on their warranty period. Some change the coils a lot of times on their first 30k miles and same with volkswagen and audis w/c has thesame manufacturer (BREMIS). I heard BREMIS are bad and BOSCH are OKAY...

any inputs????

orics
Click to expand...
That's true....but I thought they had faulty parts...if they aren't faulty on instalation, they should last a very very long time. Plus, wouldn't coils give us problems all the time...not just on cold start ups? I don't know.
 
D

dh21187

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I had the same problem occur to me as well once or twice. No one from BMW could supply a reason as to why either. Sounds like a bug in the ECM that they can't isolate.
 
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