Hello all, I am new to this forum and need help. I recently purchased a 2001 330XI w/ 67,000 miles on it. It was 22 degrees below zero outside and the car started fine. It idled for approx. 5 minutes and quit. The car would not turn over at all. The battery is fine. It makes a clunk sound like the engine is bound up. It smelled hot like a burnt fluid type smell. My warranty (60 day) is up by 250 miles as it was 60 days or 3000 miles. I'm worried the engine seized. The dealer put 8 qts of fresh oil in 3 wks ago and a new thermostat the day before it broke. Please HELP !! Thanks.
Engine won't turn over
- Thread starter Patriot-USA
- Start date
Don't panic, but it almost sounds like it might have overheated and seized. I hope not!! Even though it wouldn't be up to full operating temperature, localized heat (head and cylinder walls) could be pretty hot. The reason I suggest this is because:
1. It started OK
2. It ran for 5 minutes and stopped
3. It seems to be locked up mechanically
The reason I think overheating is that the thermostat was changed the day before, and then the problem occurred. It could overheat under three possible conditions I can think of:
1. Thermostat installed incorrectly and didn't open.
2. Insufficient strength or no antifreeze after thermostat change, and the water in the block or radiator froze, so no coolant circulating and it overheated.
3. Air pockets after the coolant was drained and filled, although I wouldn't expect this to cause it to overheat at idle.
If you can show that it was heat related to the service the day before, I think the service shop is liable for the damages regardless of the basic warranty. One of the legal guys here would know more about that than me. Let us know how you make out.
1. It started OK
2. It ran for 5 minutes and stopped
3. It seems to be locked up mechanically
The reason I think overheating is that the thermostat was changed the day before, and then the problem occurred. It could overheat under three possible conditions I can think of:
1. Thermostat installed incorrectly and didn't open.
2. Insufficient strength or no antifreeze after thermostat change, and the water in the block or radiator froze, so no coolant circulating and it overheated.
3. Air pockets after the coolant was drained and filled, although I wouldn't expect this to cause it to overheat at idle.
If you can show that it was heat related to the service the day before, I think the service shop is liable for the damages regardless of the basic warranty. One of the legal guys here would know more about that than me. Let us know how you make out.
Thanks for the quick replies. Just to clarify a few things. The oil was completely changed 3 weeks ago. After the engine quit running, I tried to start it and it just made a clunking sound. The battery is still strong. I had it towed to the dealer today as you guys recommended. The service manager says it is probably "hydro-locked" ?? Says something froze and all the oil was sucked up into the top of the engine. He claims the thermostat being changed the day before had nothing to do with it. They haven't actually looked at it yet. I will know tomorrow. As far as the warranty, they say if it was cold related, I'll have to pay for it. They say with the 330 you can't let it idle, that you have to start it and immediately drive off. I can't do that when it's -22 or -35 as it commonly is up here in northern NY. The windshield was all frosted, I wouldn't have been able to see. I love the car, and I hope it's not seized. I had a 1986 325 that had 154,000 miles on it when I bought it and 230,000 when I sold it. I never had a problem in the cold. The only thing I replaced was the alternator. The service manager said the 1986 325 had a different engine. He says my engine has to be cleaned out and will cost about $600.00 if it is in fact hydro-locked. Anyone ever heard of this, and what can I do to prevent this from happening again? Thanks to all...
The 330i has the normal 3.0ltr inline 6 in it and YES it can idle, though it is recommended that it be started up and driven gently till it warms up. I would tell them that it is related and they will either fix the damage on a recently purchased car or you will be filing a lawsuit against them. Any litigious attorney can relate the "water getting into the oil"??? (confess ignorance on the mechanical issue) to shody service at the dealership. It's also bad business to purchase a new car (wasn't it CPO?) and have the customer pay $$$ because it breaks right away. I would tell them that I'd give them a bad public reputation and a bad rating... at the very least split it half way.
I will say this, the new BMW's do behave quite strange on startup in very cold temperatures. As absurd as it sounds, if I lived in a cold area I would stay away from BMW.
I will say this, the new BMW's do behave quite strange on startup in very cold temperatures. As absurd as it sounds, if I lived in a cold area I would stay away from BMW.
Either you misunderstood something he said or he is full of crap. All the oil sucked up to the top of the engine? I never heard of THAT - ALL of the oil journals would have to be totally blocked, that just isn't gonna happen ESPECIALLY if the engine was running for 5 minutes.
You can read about Hydrolock HERE. . It occurs when water gets into a cylinder. Water is not compressible and bad things happen. If something froze and cracked in the engine, yes, you could get water in a cylinder, but from what I know, hydrolocking usually happens when the engine is NOT running, unless you drive through deep water and suck water in the intake. It would take a big, sudden crack in the block to dump enough water in a cylinder to cause hydrolock while the engine is running. Anybody here know otherwise?
When they replaced the thermostat, did they do a total, fresh refill or reuse your old coolant? Did they test the concentration?
Man, I wish you luck - this could really hurt...![[:(]](/images/smilies/frown.png "Frown [:(]")
You can read about Hydrolock HERE. . It occurs when water gets into a cylinder. Water is not compressible and bad things happen. If something froze and cracked in the engine, yes, you could get water in a cylinder, but from what I know, hydrolocking usually happens when the engine is NOT running, unless you drive through deep water and suck water in the intake. It would take a big, sudden crack in the block to dump enough water in a cylinder to cause hydrolock while the engine is running. Anybody here know otherwise?
When they replaced the thermostat, did they do a total, fresh refill or reuse your old coolant? Did they test the concentration?
Man, I wish you luck - this could really hurt...
Kirby said:
Either you misunderstood something he said or he is full of crap. All the oil sucked up to the top of the engine? I never heard of THAT - ALL of the oil journals would have to be totally blocked, that just isn't gonna happen ESPECIALLY if the engine was running for 5 minutes.
You can read about Hydrolock HERE. . It occurs when water gets into a cylinder. Water is not compressible and bad things happen. If something froze and cracked in the engine, yes, you could get water in a cylinder, but from what I know, hydrolocking usually happens when the engine is NOT running, unless you drive through deep water and suck water in the intake. It would take a big, sudden crack in the block to dump enough water in a cylinder to cause hydrolock while the engine is running. Anybody here know otherwise?
When they replaced the thermostat, did they do a total, fresh refill or reuse your old coolant? Did they test the concentration?
Man, I wish you luck - this could really hurt...
You can read about Hydrolock HERE. . It occurs when water gets into a cylinder. Water is not compressible and bad things happen. If something froze and cracked in the engine, yes, you could get water in a cylinder, but from what I know, hydrolocking usually happens when the engine is NOT running, unless you drive through deep water and suck water in the intake. It would take a big, sudden crack in the block to dump enough water in a cylinder to cause hydrolock while the engine is running. Anybody here know otherwise?
When they replaced the thermostat, did they do a total, fresh refill or reuse your old coolant? Did they test the concentration?
Man, I wish you luck - this could really hurt...
I had a service manager tell me that the clutch replacement on bmw's required about $2000 in special tools to do.... HAHA. The same service manager told my friend something that was COMPLETE BS. Service managers are paid to make the dealer money in the service department. They typically have business degrees, and wouldn't know a caliper from a rotor.
Well I don't truly believe that statement myself, but on startup the car just seems like it's in a "I can but I don't want to" startup mode. Sure once it's warmed up and driving the BMW does great in the cold, but on startup it does act a bit quirky and I know I can't be the only one who says this.
This applies to NEW BMW's not the old ones. As for purchasing a BMW in a frosty new england/upstate NY climate, if it's new and under warranty ok, but if it's one of the newer models thats used with plenty of "I-don't-know-how-it-was-driven" miles on it and no warranty, I'd stay away. Not to criticize anyone in particular but theres a reason why they didn't CPO the 2001 330xi...
This applies to NEW BMW's not the old ones. As for purchasing a BMW in a frosty new england/upstate NY climate, if it's new and under warranty ok, but if it's one of the newer models thats used with plenty of "I-don't-know-how-it-was-driven" miles on it and no warranty, I'd stay away. Not to criticize anyone in particular but theres a reason why they didn't CPO the 2001 330xi...
Latest update: The service person says that the oil separator froze and caused the oil to fill the cylinders, causing a type of hydrolock. I don't understand how, but that's what they said. He said there is an updated oil separator that is insulated and they have put one in. So far, he says they are going to pay for it, PHEW!!!! I asked him about idleing and he said to never let it idle. He said to drive it right away and if I had done this the problem would have never occurred. He said if the windshield is frosted then I should start it and keep the rpm's at about 2,000. I will find out more tomorrow and let you guys now. I guess if you ever drive up here in northern NY, you better not let your car idle. That just sounds dumb doesn't it? But, the car is so fun to drive, I hate to get rid of it. Thanks again for the input. Oh, to answer one of your questions, there was no low antifreeze warning light or any warning light for that matter.
Well, I got my car back from the dealer today and they agreed to pay for everything. It was over $1,000 including the tow bill. They replaced the oil separator with a new updated and insulated one. So, I guess if there is anyone out there with a 330, you may want to look into this incident if you plan on traveling in cold weather climates. I don't know if this affects the 325 or 328. Hope all is well out there for everyone else. Thanks again for all the info...
Glad it worked out, I guess the dealer wanted to keep a good rep with their recent customer, or something else might have been to blame and they didn't want you to realize it, so they changed their story and fixed it fast... (conspiracy theory ![[chair]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_chairshot.gif "Chair Shot [chair]")
) It does affect the 2.5i engine I'm not sure about the 2.8 and 2.3, but the NEW 2.5 and 3.0 are basically the same. I think the dealer meant not to let the car idle on startup in freezing weather, but once it's been warm and driving for a while it shouldn't matter...although I'd still be afraid to let it idle after this.
) It does affect the 2.5i engine I'm not sure about the 2.8 and 2.3, but the NEW 2.5 and 3.0 are basically the same. I think the dealer meant not to let the car idle on startup in freezing weather, but once it's been warm and driving for a while it shouldn't matter...although I'd still be afraid to let it idle after this.
Bmw 325i 7803 said:
Glad it worked out, I guess the dealer wanted to keep a good rep with their recent customer, or something else might have been to blame and they didn't want you to realize it, so they changed their story and fixed it fast... (conspiracy theory ) It does affect the 2.5i engine I'm not sure about the 2.8 and 2.3, but the NEW 2.5 and 3.0 are basically the same. I think the dealer meant not to let the car idle on startup in freezing weather, but once it's been warm and driving for a while it shouldn't matter...although I'd still be afraid to let it idle after this.
) It does affect the 2.5i engine I'm not sure about the 2.8 and 2.3, but the NEW 2.5 and 3.0 are basically the same. I think the dealer meant not to let the car idle on startup in freezing weather, but once it's been warm and driving for a while it shouldn't matter...although I'd still be afraid to let it idle after this.
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