Hesitation in manual transmission

Chesty Bonds · Dec 7, 2004

Hey Guys,

We've got an E46 325i manual and we've been arguing with the dealership over the effectiveness of the fly-by-wire accelerator.

Our car is very difficult to drive in traffic: the clutch is snatchy and the acceleration can sometimes come in lumps of power as opposed to a linear delivery. It is excessively hard to drive smoothly at low speeds and I am aware that there is a system which controls the engagement of the clutch during gearchanges which is probably not helping the situation (I can change gear myself thakyou very much BMW!).

We had the dealership install new software for the fly-by-wire system which was fine for about a week and then the car reverted to its old self. It's a bit annoying because the car is so beautiful but it's just such a bitch to drive in traffic. So I'm wondering if any of you guys have a similar problem with your manual gearboxes.

Any comments/ideas would be welcome (apart from the "BMW should bring back the throttle cable" comments. I already think that!)

Pete.

wood_e · Dec 8, 2004

I hate drive by wire cars. My dad's 2000 Carerra 4 is drive by wire and it would be so much better to drive with a damn cable... My SHO is a cable and it has a nice smooth action.

I was going to say if you were having mechanical problems with your gearbox I would put some new fluid in there to see if that helped but after reading your post I just don't know

gizzy · Dec 8, 2004

There is a restricter that connects to the clutch assembly (don't remember what it is called) that slows the flow of clutch fluid when engaging the clutch to provide a softer feel. Would this be causing some of your problems and have you thought to remove it. From what I understand, you just disconect the hydraulic line, remove the restrictor, and then reconect the hydraulic line.

Drive by wire for a throtle shouldn't ever make a difference from a cable system in my opinion. It's just when they try to add all of the crap that takes everything over thinking that it can do better than we can that kills me.

Nataku · Dec 8, 2004

Gizzy, I think we are talking about the CDV ( Clutch Delay Value ). Im thinking about getting it removed. Get rough shift from 1st to 2nd sometimes 2nd to 3rd. The CDV work by restricting the hydraulic fluid flow to the clutch so no matter how fast you release the clutch, it engages at a fixed rate. I find the rev match does not help, only to release the clutch slowly for smooth engagement of the engine / tranny. Make experience drives look like amateur. I hate it especially when my passage gives me funny looks have a session of head bobbing. I believe the purpose it not to let people abuse the transmission by revving the engine and dropping clutch ( drag racing ). But, causes experience driver less control. Some say it will wear the clutch faster

Check these out :
http://www.bmwboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9470&highlight=cdv

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=112687&highlight=cdv

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=205464&highlight=cdv

Here's a solution - Zeckhausen Racing modified CDV -
http://www.zeckhausen.com/CDV.htm

mbquart3000 · Dec 8, 2004

Hi Pete.

I happened to come across this site which I think is pretty helpfull.

It does mention something about the cdv valve as well as a sticky pedal issue.

Check it out.

Nick [driving]

http://www.bmw325i.net/sticky_pedal_fix.shtml

http://www.bmw325i.net/rev_cdv_removal.shtml

epj3 · Dec 8, 2004

I dont know about other cars, but I've always found bmw's to be more difficult to drive smoothly in parking lots and at speeds under 20 mph... not just my car, but my friends e36 and the 530i I test drove a while ago. I don't want to say its normal but it might be. If it weren't for the clutch delay valve I'd say it's normal.

gizzy · Dec 8, 2004

Thanks Nataku,

The CDV is what I was refering to - just couldn't think of the name of it.

jrt67ss350 · Dec 8, 2004

epj3 said:

Yeah, I've noticed that to some extent in my car, but mine is probably smoother than yours since mine has a dual mass flywheel. Keep in mind that most of the E36s and the 530i have CDVs on them, and that'll make it hard to maneuver in a parking lot - stupid BMW. Does Jon's have a CDV? Ironically, the 2000 Z3 I drove for a summer had a silky smooth clutch and was a piece of cake to drive, and it supposedly should have had a CDV.

Chesty Bonds · Dec 8, 2004

Guys I really appreciate the responses.

We got our car back from the dealership and they said the car was running fine. Deep down I think it is fine too but my dad is not a happy chappy. I did refer to the Clutch Delay Valve and I think it's a total wank. The service manager at BMW Melbourne did admit to me after prodding that the M3 doesn't have a CDV - make of that what you will but I think that tells us a lot.

I certainly do not like the fly by wire setup. It is definitely very responsive but linearity is almost non-existent and it is just so difficult to modulate the throttle in heavy traffic. I really don't like the fact that there's a little computer interpreting my acceleration inputs but I guess there's absolutely nothing we can do. I also dislike the fact that the CDV even exists - once again I suppose it's used as BMWs response to the lowest common denominator; some people just can't drive so they have to use the CDV to protect the machinery.

Having said all this, I'm really the only one in my family that can drive the E46 smoothly (much to my dad and brother's disgust) but there is absolutely no doubt that it's excessively difficult to do so. I do like a challenge but this is very different. Like epj3 and Justin said, the E30 is a tough car to keep it smooth but at least it's faithful to your inputs.

I suppose this is just another example of BMWs recent meddling in the level of driver engagement/involvement with the car. It's very disappointing.

Thanks again for the responses. Pete

Tom · Dec 8, 2004

I sort of gotten used to mine, but man the first few weeks were sure tough, especially in California traffic.

BTW: Good references Nataku.

epj3 · Dec 8, 2004

jrt67ss350 said:

E36's (at least the 94 (jon's) that i've driven) dont have a clutch delay valve, neither do E34's.

epj3 · Dec 8, 2004

Chesty Bonds Youre right about the E30. Thats why I'm looking for another even though I could afford a decent pre-96 (328) E36. I'd much rather have the control and overall feel of the E30. It's comfortable enough for me.

Kirby · Dec 9, 2004

epj3 said:

Ditto - my '94 doesn't have it. That would suck for AutoX. Most of the serious Autocrossers take it out .

Nataku · Dec 9, 2004

Tom said:

Thanks,

Me too. This was my first MT. I played around with my father old Chevy Citation and a friends Honda civic a long time ago, basically just understood the concept. The first day i got my new car, driving was quit a challenge. I got stuck on a hill at a light. Afraid the car will roll back and hit the car behind. I waited 3 lights until no one was behind me while everyone beeps at me and gave me dirty looks passing. I practiced a couple of nights for 2 weeks until i was comfortable with hill stops. 2nd Nature now but still get rough 1st / 2nd gear shifts at times. I have to say compared to the Honda this car is much more difficult to drive. The Honda that i drove had a clutch travel only about 2-3 inches, required light pressure, and I could engage in 1st without the throttle and not have the car stall.

Average Jae · Dec 9, 2004

since my car was the first manual, i don't knwo any better, and have almost gotten used to the way it shifts. even in bumper to bumper traffic. (coming out of pistons games sure turns the parking lot into a traffic hell for about 20mins to hour and a half..) i know i get rough shifts from 1st to 2nd at times, but i attirbuted it to not driving much, and out of practice. (i walk to work, and take my car out like 2-3 tims a week usually.) now i know better! it was the damn car's fault [:D]

if i really need to replace the CDV, i'll have to consider it. it's only $100 to have them do it.. hmm, looks like if i ever need to head out to NJ, i'll have to take my car out there to get the CDV replaced. (i really don't want to tinker w/ a 40k+ ride, to save $60 in labor. good learning exp? yes, good judgment? well...)

edit: nataku: take your car to an empty parking lot and try the gear in first, letting go of the clutch slowly w/out gas. you should be able to master it in about 5 mins. you really just have to get used to the pedal feel. it comes in useful for me in traffic situations, like the one mentioned above.

Nataku · Dec 9, 2004

Average Jae,

Im the same as you. get to drive the car usually only on the weekends. just take about 5 min to get the muscle memory back. becuz i done get to use the car as must as i would like, get too excited when i do !

bmwrocks · Dec 9, 2004

A friend of mine got rid of his '03 325i because in his words "it was such a dog". He was always complaining that when he pressed on the gas hard at just about any speed, it would feel like it was hesitating because the response was so slow and delayed.

He took it in a number of times and even got loaners that didn't do this, but he just got the dealer runaround like "thats normal" and "we couldnt find anything wrong with it".

He finally got sick of it and BMW and sold it. He now drives a Nissan Xterra.

BTW my 330Ci accelerates like a demon at all speeds and the throttle response is virtually instantaneous.

Chesty Bonds · Dec 9, 2004

bmwrocks said:

This is exactly what has happened to us with our 325i. The accelerator hesitation can be downright dangerous and the look on my mum's face when the car decides to rev to 5K as opposed to 3 says it all. The dealership told us there's nothing wrong with our car but I reckon they're trying to skirt the responsibility of fixing it; either that or they have no solution to the problem, in which case they'd never admit to anything.

It's so annoying because it's just such a lovely car!

selavia · Dec 10, 2004

I have had this problem in my 95 318Is, my friend's 2002 Jetta Vr6, Audi A4, and 90 325i. My friend who drives the Jetta came up with a solution that really helps; when you're in a lot and you want to go into 2nd gear, take it out of first, hang out in neutral for like 3 seconds and then go into second; I don't get any "roughness" or anything anymore. I could talking about something completely different, so if this makes no sense, just ignore it.

Sean

Chesty Bonds · Dec 10, 2004

selavia said:

LOL I'm not a grandpa yet! I don't think this would really solve anything; the car should respond well to a good driver in the first place. We shouldn't have to drive around the gearbox just to get it smooth.

Anyway, the old man isn't a happy chappy with BMW Melbourne right now (or BMW, for that matter) and I do feel genuine sorrow for the service rep who is going to cop the biggest spray of his life. I do hope that BMW can find some solution because the car as it is at the moment is inadequate and not what we've come to expect from BMW. I just don't understand all this driver overriding technology (CDV) because it's hindering not assisting the driver.

Maybe we'll make BMW take the CDV out and see what happens. Again, thanks for the intelligent and informative responses.

Pete.

Hesitation in manual transmission

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