To Dinan or not to Dinan... That is the question.

[colnago]

I'm having fun dressing up my new 325i toy. Now I'm considring getting some performance upgrades. My local BMW here is asking aprox $3K for the Dinan Stage 2 perf upgrade for the following...

1.) Exhaust
2.) Cold Air Intake
3.) Chip
4.) Modified Throttle Body
5.) front suspension support

Is this Dinan Stuff worth it?

I'm considering getting other after market peformance stuff but I'm afraid of voiding my warranty. Also I think my BMW shop here is putting a scare tactic on me that other none Dinan after market stuff will do funny stuff on my car. So do Dinan/BMW really know there stuff?

Any suggestion? Should I get Dina'fied?

 

[frolf]

Dinan is a good company, but any product not BMW voids your warrenty. The difference is that Dinan is distributed through a number of BMW Dealers, and the products they install have a warrenty that is identical to BMW's. You will still have a warrenty, it just won't be from BMW. Which is the case with most other performance upgrades. also warrenties are very complex, you can void warrenties for specific parts, or complete engines.

You would be fine with other companies, and Dinan is expensive. But do what you please, cause Dinan is a very reputable company.

 

[BMW-M-Freak]

Yeah, if you're willing to pay the premium for dinan, get it. That warranty might come in handy. I'm pretty sure it will cover the entire car, esp. considering that's the only tuner BMW offers at a dealship.

 

[ILuvBMW]

Welcome Dinan makes good stuff, but other companies also make good stuff for cheaper. $3k for that package doesn't seem to expensive though, but I dont know my aftermarket stuff. How many Dinan points is that?

 

[PuShAkOv]

Hey! People say Remus makes better exhaust sound than Dinan.

I am selling mine on ebay now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33630&item=2429200651

 

[Akakubi]

I am probably in the minority here, but I would not get Dinan stuff. Don't take it as bashing bashing, but just my opinion.

The quality is OK, but what you get for the $$ is not good enough. You can do much much better elsewhere.

Their engine software and intake are not worth the $$ for sure. The software gives you exactly "0" HP. All it does is remove the speed limiter, increse the RPMs by 250 and change the throttle response - no big deal. The intake design is also not the best, with the filter sitting so close to the ground. I am really not at all a fan of the Dinan's exhaust either. Just rise in acar with one and you'll see what I mean.

The best part that goes for Dinan's products is marketing. They offer to cover their upgrades with warranty to match BMW's. That's all there is to it.

You can pick up an excellent Exhaust for $500-700 tops, a much better designed intake for 300-500 depending on model, a better strut brace, save $400 on the software to spend on some other upgrades and after all installation you will be still well under $3K.

my $.02

 

[MrElussive]

I feel Dinan charges WAY too much for their products, particularly on the software upgrades. They want $500 for each software download, and they have Stage 1, Stage 2, Stage 3, etc. Screw Dinan and get some good aftermarket parts that are much cheaper. Remember, the rule is that only IF a mod causes a problem to your car, is your warranty void. When my Jetta was modded and my sunroof motor and overhead light console was broken, they replaced all that under warranty, seeing my Jetta had an air intake, exhaust, 17" wheels, etc....they just did the work (for free, under warranty) and they didn't say a word about my mods.

 

[colnago]

I'm glad I found this web site. Fascinating comments. Thanks everyone. But I would like to hear more, both pros and cons.

What do you all have and recommend? I do not want to turbo or super charging, and I do not want something too loud. Something perhaps under $3K would be great, unless you can convince me that Dinan is worth that.

To Akakubi: What do you mean raise revs to 250? Does that mean at idle my rev norm is 250 higher? Is my car currently limiting me to go beyond a set limit? Can I just step on the gas and force it to go beyond 250+? I read the details on the Dinan catalog about the chip, and they did mentioned what you said on what they do. But I still want to hear more of your experience and opinion in detail regarding this subject. Also what do you think of the Dinan modified throttle body that BMW is encouraging me to get along with this Dinan mods?

Another stupid question: Do I really need the front suspension support? I do like to take on curves and winding roads every so often, but does it really help?

 

[MrElussive]

If I were you, and wanted more power, I would do these mods:
AEM Cold Air Intake ~ $250 (Provides just a few hp increase)
Remus Dual-Tip Exhaust ~ $550 (Provides just a few hp increase)
ASE Chips ECU Chip ~ $700 (Increases power from 184hp/175 torque to 197hp/187 torque)
That comes to $1,500 without installation.

 

[Akakubi]

I would be very weary of the ECU HP gains on the E46. So far, most proved bogus. Only gains that were seen, were after the exhaust and intake installed. In Dinan's case, add the Throttle Body to it also. ECU on the E46 is not worth it, period.

The front suspension support is simply a facny name for the strut brace. It does zippo to your handling on the street, no matter how you take the corners. E46 is stiff enough already. E30 and E36 really benefit from that mod, as their body tend to twist. E46 has cured that problem with its insane chassis rigidity. You really only need the strut brace on the track/AutoX or for show.

What will change your handling characteristics are Sway Bars. This is what you want to get to reduce bodyroll and tune under- and oversteer. Again, don't waste $$ on Dinan and buy UUC Sway Barbarians (RD Sport ones are discontinued for now). I think these would run you $350.00 or so.

AEM intake for the E46 is not good. It's generic, not model specific. You want a heat-shielded unit to be a true CAI. And the filter must not sit too low to the ground like in Dinan's case. It's OK for racing, but you'll have trouble cleaning it on the street, as well as face the danger of sucking up water - happened to people before.

Good intakes are: RD Sport (brand new, Carbon Fiber unit) at $485.00 (under the group buy now at $395.00), Gruppe M (similar design) at $599.00, ECIS (lower end of the chart) $325.00 and Conforti (ECIS style) at around $350.00 also. All of these intakes are shielded and sit high in the engine bay, while getting air from at least two places at the same time. Choose based on looks/sound/finish, no real HP difference - 5-9hp/7-11ft-lb on a good day.

Dinan has three good products (overpriced though, as always) - Tranny Software, Throttle body and Supercharger kit. If you really want something Dinan, these are the ones to get.

I meant: Raise the Redline by 250rpms, so yeah, in fact it will overcome the fuel cutoff which is set at 6250RPM (at least on the 330's). In my book, don't mess with the redline if you want to keep the engine from blowing. Take a look at the S54 M3 engines already overstressed from the factory. M54's don't have that much load, but still BMW decided to cutoff the power at that particular range. Besides, your HP and Torque are dropping anyway past 6K RPM.

Hope this helps.

 

[brahtw8]

I meant: Raise the Redline by 250rpms, so yeah, in fact it will overcome the fuel cutoff which is set at 6250RPM (at least on the 330's). In my book, don't mess with the redline if you want to keep the engine from blowing. Take a look at the S54 M3 engines already overstressed from the factory. M54's don't have that much load, but still BMW decided to cutoff the power at that particular range. Besides, your HP and Torque are dropping anyway past 6K RPM.

Hope this helps.

I don't share the concern over raising the revs on a 325i M50. That engine is not very stressed in factory tune, unlike the S54 which comes 'chipped' from the factory (meaning it already runs an aggressive program). I have the previous gen. M50 in my E36, which actually makes more power stock than the new ones, but at higher rpm (the new ones are designed for better low end torque at the sacrifice of the top end). With the Dinan chip the rev limiter is now 7000 and I have had no problems, with 141k on the clock now and probably 80-100k of that with the chip.

If you aren't worried about the warranty, you would do well to look into the other products mentioned above, and then some.

 

[silvere46m3]

Dinan is a good company, but any product not BMW voids your warrenty. The difference is that Dinan is distributed through a number of BMW Dealers, and the products they install have a warrenty that is identical to BMW's. You will still have a warrenty, it just won't be from BMW. Which is the case with most other performance upgrades. also warrenties are very complex, you can void warrenties for specific parts, or complete engines.

You would be fine with other companies, and Dinan is expensive. But do what you please, cause Dinan is a very reputable company.

absolutely correct..........you will void bmw's warranty, but Dinan will back up there products with there warranty.

 

[silvere46m3]

I am probably in the minority here, but I would not get Dinan stuff. Don't take it as bashing bashing, but just my opinion.

The quality is OK, but what you get for the $$ is not good enough. You can do much much better elsewhere.

Their engine software and intake are not worth the $$ for sure. The software gives you exactly "0" HP. All it does is remove the speed limiter, increse the RPMs by 250 and change the throttle response - no big deal. The intake design is also not the best, with the filter sitting so close to the ground. I am really not at all a fan of the Dinan's exhaust either. Just rise in acar with one and you'll see what I mean.

The best part that goes for Dinan's products is marketing. They offer to cover their upgrades with warranty to match BMW's. That's all there is to it.

You can pick up an excellent Exhaust for $500-700 tops, a much better designed intake for 300-500 depending on model, a better strut brace, save $400 on the software to spend on some other upgrades and after all installation you will be still well under $3K.

my $.02

i agree

 

[frolf]

also, if you go to hardcore with the dinan shit, the warrenty plummets. like the s/c's warrenty sucks. and voids your entire engine warrenty.

f dinan.

 

[Big Daddy]

Gosh, I have Dinan suspension on both my 91 318is and my 98 M roadster and I love them. I have had zero probelms. The roadsters four springs and Koni adjustables, included in the Dinan kit were $1500.00 installed. That is not bad. The roadster also has a Dinan front strut brace, very necessary in a convertible, but I agree you may not need such an item on an E46. I had a Dinan chip in the 318, but tried a Conforti and like it better. The roadster has had a Dinan program upgrade, however I have nothing to compare it to. I do agree that most of their items are a little more expensive than others.

I do NOT like Remus exhaust. I had one on the 318 and it rusted through in one year. Remus would not stand by their product. I prefer Supersprint exhaust, however the roadster's is stock.

I guess that what I am saying is that I think Dinan suspensions are great, Conforti's chip is better in an M42 motor than Dinan and yes there are others out there comparable that cost less. With your car I have to agree with Akaubi's suggestions.

 

[Akakubi]

I don't share the concern over raising the revs on a 325i M50. That engine is not very stressed in factory tune, unlike the S54 which comes 'chipped' from the factory (meaning it already runs an aggressive program). I have the previous gen. M50 in my E36, which actually makes more power stock than the new ones, but at higher rpm (the new ones are designed for better low end torque at the sacrifice of the top end). With the Dinan chip the rev limiter is now 7000 and I have had no problems, with 141k on the clock now and probably 80-100k of that with the chip.

If you aren't worried about the warranty, you would do well to look into the other products mentioned above, and then some.

Brahtw8! You are confusing OBD I cars with newer OBD II. These are two totally different animals. OBD I cars indeed benefit from "Chips" due to their design (that's why 95 M3's are so highly sought after), but OBD II cars are already optimized. And you do not even get a chip any longer, but a software upgrade.

You can run higher redline, but it is riskier.

 

[brahtw8]

Brahtw8! You are confusing OBD I cars with newer OBD II. These are two totally different animals. OBD I cars indeed benefit from "Chips" due to their design (that's why 95 M3's are so highly sought after), but OBD II cars are already optimized. And you do not even get a chip any longer, but a software upgrade.

You can run higher redline, but it is riskier.

No, I was just using 'chip' loosely. Read my response again and you will see 'chipped' is in quotes and I said the E46 M3 runs an aggressive "program" from the factory.

I fully understand that you would be using a Conforti shark injector or other software upgrade on an OBDII E46, and that the gains on OBDII cars are far less, owing to the more restrictive emissions standard.

I simply don't think that the 2-300 rpm increase in the rev limiter is going to cause any problems.

As an upgrade, I agree it doesn't do much for you.

 

[MrElussive]

Does anyone here actually give a shit about their warranty, though? I know when I was modding my Jetta, I could care less about my warranty. The service department of my VW dealership was full of retards anyways. Plus, I figured that if I took good care of my car, nothing will go wrong. Germans know how to make cars LAST.
As for my recommendation of the AEM Cold Air Intake, I trust AEM because on their web site, they show dyno graphs proving the gains, and I personally feel that a head shield is BS. I don't believe that when dealing with a hot engine, a "shield" that only covers about half the intake will actually do anything...I think the companies do this just to sell their product.
As for ASE Chips ECU chip for the E46, I firmly believe that they are telling the truth regarding the gains. That company has been around for years and they are very well-known in Europe. Granted BMW squeezed mad hp out of the ECU chip, there is always more to be squeezed out. For example, the US M3 has 333hp, and the Euro-spec M3 has 343hp.
For the record, when I offer advice like this, I don't just pull shit out of my ass, whatever I recommend or say has proof behind it, otherwise I would let you know.

 

[brahtw8]

Does anyone here actually give a shit about their warranty, though? I know when I was modding my Jetta, I could care less about my warranty. The service department of my VW dealership was full of retards anyways. Plus, I figured that if I took good care of my car, nothing will go wrong. Germans know how to make cars LAST.
As for my recommendation of the AEM Cold Air Intake, I trust AEM because on their web site, they show dyno graphs proving the gains, and I personally feel that a head shield is BS. I don't believe that when dealing with a hot engine, a "shield" that only covers about half the intake will actually do anything...I think the companies do this just to sell their product.
As for ASE Chips ECU chip for the E46, I firmly believe that they are telling the truth regarding the gains. That company has been around for years and they are very well-known in Europe. Granted BMW squeezed mad hp out of the ECU chip, there is always more to be squeezed out. For example, the US M3 has 333hp, and the Euro-spec M3 has 343hp.
For the record, when I offer advice like this, I don't just pull shit out of my ass, whatever I recommend or say has proof behind it, otherwise I would let you know.

If you don't care about your warranty on the G35, what are your thoughts on forced induction courtesy of Stillen? That G35 would be a lot of fun with 370 hp, which is not to say it isn't fun as is (and in all candor you should drive it for a year or two before you even consider that, but its fun to dream.)

I haven't seen ASE's products, and I assume you are talking about a software upgrade on the existing chip, since you wouldn't physically swap the actual microchip but download the software.

As for the M3, the difference is really only 5 hp. or so, although strictly speaking the numbers you quote are correct. They measure hp. differently in europe. The other 5 hp. is US emissions related and indeed is that extra little bit to be squeezed out. (BTW, Dinan can now squeeze 28 hp and 20 ft/lbs at peak out of an E46 M3, as in their new S2)

 

[MrElussive]

brahtw8, I like the Stillen ProCharger, but many reasons stop me from even considering purchasing it, the main ones being that it costs $5,000 + labor and that I only have my G35C for 3 years. The smaller reasons are that it would just be pointless for me as my car will never see a racetrack and I would not appreciate the drop in gas mileage (I don't even get 20 miles to the gallon now!). I am thinking more along the lines of the Injen Cold Air Intake and the Borla Exhaust (good for 20hp, combined), and maybe Borla Headers, but probably none of them as I am extremely satisfied with the way the car is stock.
For the ASE Chips service, it is similar to the other ECU upgrade companies. You send in the whole board to them, which contains the ECU. They remove the stock ECU and install their ECU chip and send the whole piece back to you. As I said, they are a very reputable and well-known company in Europe, not US (unfortunately). Bavarian Auto offers an ECU chip for about half the price (I believe it's like $385) for the 330 motor and they offer similar gains as ASE Chips does.
And yes, I know we lose some hp due to strict emissions requirements in the US. But sometimes, we lose a lot of hp. For example, the most powerful Audi TT available here has 225hp (aside from the upcoming 250hp TT). In Europe, that same 225hp TT, produces around 270hp. So basically, living in the US (in NJ), I deal with cold winters, I can't drink until I'm 21, the cars lose mad hp, everybody drives automatic, much less partying, very strict rules....why am I even here? I'm moving !!