Why/Why not Audi A4 better than BMW 3 series

TheBry · Aug 27, 2004

CrazyBlueBoy said:

You're coming at this from the wrong direction. You've spun my original post into something else altogether. Of course I don't think Jaguar should change the look of their cars just because they're copied by another manufacturer. That'd be absurd, and has nothing to do with my original post.

My original post was about VW using "visible" Audi parts (or vise versa) in their cars -- taking away from the feeling of exclusivity (specifically with Passat / A4) when you plunk down upwards of $40K for a fully loaded A4. Also, I mentioned I was comparing 1999 specs, not current specs. The argument still stands (and still holds water). Compare a 1999 Passat to a 1999 A4 and you'll see a lot of the same stuff (engines, transmissions, interior touches, etc.).

zrated786 · Aug 27, 2004

I bought a 325i 5sp Spt and its a nice car, but i think im regretting buying it over an A4. Quattro kicks ass. and with a Performance Chip their big power diff. Easy tunability. I think it looks nicer than most cars ive seen. Interior is amazing. But the reason i bought my bimmer is that audi has no Residual Value. I like BMW, but if its not an M3, its not that great in my opinion. But Im 17, its not my money, parents wanted to save money and BMW holds its value like nothing ive seen. But next car im thinkin S4, anyone seen the Top Gear Test for S4 vs M3. S4 outhandled the M3. Outhandling an M3? thats pretty damn good handling. A4 is more bang for the buck in my opinion. Quattro, 6sp, Easy tunability, Good looks, Good handling, Great Interior. Pros of a 3 series: Good Handling, Good Resale, Just nice to drive. Cons of a 3 series: You get less than u pay for. Pros of an Audi: Quattro, Good Handling, Easy to Tune( perfomance ecu tuning APR Direct Programming is undetecatble by dealers, therefore u still have warranty), More Amneties for the price, Interior kicks, Better looking car than the 3 series. Cons: Reliability, No resale.

KevRC4130 · Aug 28, 2004

zrated786 said:

I bought a 325i 5sp Spt and its a nice car, but i think im regretting buying it over an A4. Quattro kicks ass. and with a Performance Chip their big power diff. Easy tunability. I think it looks nicer than most cars ive seen. Interior is amazing. But the reason i bought my bimmer is that audi has no Residual Value. I like BMW, but if its not an M3, its not that great in my opinion. But Im 17, its not my money, parents wanted to save money and BMW holds its value like nothing ive seen. But next car im thinkin S4, anyone seen the Top Gear Test for S4 vs M3. S4 outhandled the M3. Outhandling an M3? thats pretty damn good handling. A4 is more bang for the buck in my opinion. Quattro, 6sp, Easy tunability, Good looks, Good handling, Great Interior. Pros of a 3 series: Good Handling, Good Resale, Just nice to drive. Cons of a 3 series: You get less than u pay for. Pros of an Audi: Quattro, Good Handling, Easy to Tune( perfomance ecu tuning APR Direct Programming is undetecatble by dealers, therefore u still have warranty), More Amneties for the price, Interior kicks, Better looking car than the 3 series. Cons: Reliability, No resale.

Well man, if you're 17, there shouldn't be any regret if you have any car at all, nevermind a brand new BMW! (or Audi or anything else)

rp911t · Aug 28, 2004

M3..S4...hmm...

anoodle, the last part was a joke. i sincerely did not know what IMHO meant.

TheBry · Aug 28, 2004

zrated786 said:

Incredibly astute observations for a 17-year old. Good input, zrated786. Of particular interest was the residual value observation. I completely neglected to include that in my original post. That's (to me) one of the most compelling reasons to go BMW. In fact, I think the brand just won an award this year for their cars retaining more value at resale than any other luxury brand. Definitely something to think about.

Bummer about Audi not fairing so well in the residual value department. But, I guess that's to be expected when you share visible parts with a lower-end marque (VW) -- sortof just kidding, so don't flame me guys. Just keeping things spirited ;-)

I do have one sortof related observation -- Infiniti G35 Coupe. I've driven one before (early consideration when shopping for a replacement for my Passat), but had never been in the back seat. I got that opportunity yesterday when I was in Denver on a business trip. One of the partners I was visiting just got one and insisted on driving to lunch. I chose the back seat and YIKES! Absolutely no headroom (kept feeling my head touch the glass window of the back hatch), and I got a full view of the entire cabin and can't believe how cheap the plastics and other surfaces are. This is a nearly $40K coupe but really doesn't feel like it. The engine has a nice sound though -- and feels really powerful. Just a shame the finishing touches are so flimsy.

MrElussive · Aug 28, 2004

Some of you guys are wrong. You'll see some Audi logos in a VW, but you won't see VW logos in an Audi. Audi has fine resale value, they just don't sell nearly as many cars as BMW does. BMW moves a lot more cars and their cars are PROVEN to last for a long time (and everybody loves to say they drive a BMW, even if they bought it used). Audi's vehicles have been ugly as hell and just weird to drive for years. Audi only picked up in the 90's when the B5 A4 first came out. Now, Audi sells a lot more cars and they are really on the right track. Just give Audi more time and their resale value will definitely go up.

TheBry, Obviously since I have the G35C I feel I must defend what you said while trying not to be biased. First off, the rear headroom is quite terrible, there is no denying that. Just imagine what would happen if you went over a big bump on the highway....one time that happened and two friends in the back slammed their heads against the glass. Although the rear headroom is bad, the legroom and and the overall room back there is quite comfortable. My back seat passengers often comment on how much legroom there is in the back for a Coupe. Basically, the back seats of my Coupe are often reserved for female passengers as they're naturally smaller and fit more easily back there. As for the interior materials, Infiniti definitely cut corners. To me it looks nice, but it definitely looks cheap (and it IS cheap...you can replace the whole trim for like $40 from the dealership), but keep in mind that the car is around $7K-$8K cheaper than a similarly equipped 330Ci; that is a HUGE difference, especially when you get 55 more horsepower, a limited slip differential, and dual climate control among other things. These points can be countered with the fact that the BMW offers a much more luxurious and costly interior, better resale value, and completely free maintenance (including brakes!)for 50K miles.

I would also like to comment on the transmission topic. If you've ever driven any Audi/VW with their new 6-speed manual transmission, you'll realize simply how amazing it is. Shifts are short and clear, and the shifter glides into the gates with not much effort. BMW is known for having not a very sporty transmission...shifts are typically longer and notchy although BMW has resolved this with their ZHP cars (you get a short-throw shift manual tranny with improved shifting response).

TheBry · Aug 28, 2004

MrElussive, I agree totally, man. I think we found some common ground ;-)

MrElussive · Aug 28, 2004

zrated786 said:

yo but resale value isn't THAT important to you. Just by getting stick shift, you're hurting your resalve value a lot. Second, the A4 1.8T is slow as balls unless you put a chip in there, and if you do put a chip in there, you risk ruining your engine (although I would do it also). The 325i/Ci is slow with an automatic transmission, but you went the right direction with the 5-speed manual...it makes the car A LOT faster to 60mph. Third, Audi does have good resale value, just not as high as BMW....give Audi some more time and let them move some more cars and their resale value will easily be in the 60%+ range for 3 years' depreciation. Fourth, in that video, the Audi was faster on the track, but the M3 served as a better track car (RWD, better driver-vehicle communication, better steering feel). BMW's used to be really hot back in the day when 184hp and 225hp were top of the line, but now that all the competitors easily out-match the horsepower (hell, you can get a 250hp V6 in an Altima!!!) for a cheaper price, it's hard to go with the BMW.

sly · Aug 29, 2004

BMWs have the reputation for great resale value, but I have to wonder how resale is calculated. For example generally new Audis are discounted much more than BMWS. It took years before M3s were discounted; S4s are already being discounted thousands off MSRP. So when the calculation is performed, do they start with MSRP or the actual selling price?

In my case I had a great experience when selling my '99 A4. I paid just a tad over $30K for my A4 in '99 and sold it for $22,800 three years later. Granted the miles were low, 21,500, and I take exceptionally good care of my cars. The only selling expenses I incurred were the $60 inspection fee and $15 for advertising. My car sold the first weekend in which I advertised it. Three people came to see the car and two made offers. My initial sales price was $23, 500 so I didn't have to drop the price too much. My three years owning the A4 cost me a little more than $7K. That's not bad in my books.

TheBry · Aug 31, 2004

KevRC4130 said:

Audi TT = Beetle
Audi A3 = Golf / Jetta
Audi A4 = Passat
Audi A8 = Phaeton

Looks like the A6 is the only platform VW hasn't "borrowed" from Audi (if you can call it borrowing, since they're really the same company).

codex57 · Sep 1, 2004

rp911t said:

Some moron in a Passat just now thought his had some sport to it.

I was minding my own business in the 2nd to slowest lane getting ready to change freeways. I notice major movement in my rear view mirror. Some maniac in a Passat is weaving in and out. Finally, he gets stuck behind me. Course, he's unhappy about that and decides to tailgate me VERY close in hopes of urging me to pass the semis on the right at a greater speed. I was disinclined originally since I was in a save gas mindset, but the fact that he was so close behind me pissed me off. There was passing room coming up for him, but I decided to see how long he wanted to tailgate me.

As the freeway interchange was one of those really tight 25 mph turn thingies, I punched it to see if he'd stick behind me. Guess he didn't wanna try and pass me on a sharp curve so he tried to keep tailgaiting me. Hahaha, try is the operative word because it only took me about 20 yards to open up a 1 1/2 car length lead on him. By the time the curve finally ended, he was a distant memory. [hah]

Bryan330i · Sep 1, 2004

sly said:

Cant beat that. My 330i has a trade-in value of 32, thats a $10,000 hit in one year and a private party sale price of 34, an $8,000 hit for one year. This sucks!

TheBry · Sep 1, 2004

codex57 said:

Hah! Laughing my ass off, dude! I don't know what's funnier... the way you treated him, or the fact he thought he could really "force" you to move. People are weird when they're in a hurry. If he had the V6, he had you beat with a slightly more powerful engine... but his car was waaaayy heavier -- what a fool.

carson0627 · Sep 2, 2004

rp911t said:

More standards true but absolutely phenominal?

got 3 spoke multifunction steering wheel? got sports seats? Does your cup holder work well? Got coin holder? Got 2 trip computers?

I used to own a 02 325xi and drive a 04 S4 now

carson0627 · Sep 2, 2004

rp911t said:

ok what about performance?

codex57 · Sep 2, 2004

TheBry said:

Yeah, straight line he could prolly take me fairly easily. But, the first straight section had huge semis on the right, tons of faster traffic on the left. He was only gonna go as fast as I wanted.

The next straightaway would be when we merged onto the next freeway. But, with that giant curve in between, he wasn't even in my rear view mirror no more. [hihi]

When I finally exited later, he passed me while in the fast lane. He saw my car exiting at the last minute and when he looked over, he did NOT look happy to see me. [rofl]

sly · Sep 2, 2004

Bryan330i said:

The problem with BMWs is that it's difficult to get discounts on them. I paid MSRP fpr my M3 in '02 and I don't think the dealer I went to was offering much off 330s either. So if you have to sell your new BMW about a year after purchase, you are going to take a big hit. That same salesman who told you what a great buy the BMW was a year earlier, will be telling you how soft the market is for BMWs right now. One of the worst cars for depreciation IMHO is the Porsche. I have a friend who paid MSRP, $92K, for a 40th Anniversary 996 in January, and now his dealer told him that the best he could give him on a trade-in for a 997 is $70K. $22K depreciation in eight months!

Why/Why not Audi A4 better than BMW 3 series

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