Wife learning stick
- Thread starter New York Trojan
- Start date
![[:I]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_blush.gif "Blush [:I]"){kind=icon}
why aren't you letting him touch your car? does he drive a similar car?Both of us collect cars. His passion is american heavy metal. Mine is the foreign and exotic. So no, his cars are NOTHING like mine! But the main reason that I don't let him touch my car is that I've seen him drive. . .
This is the man that bought himself a '98 cobra, and then asked me to teach him how to drive it (it was a manual), and then whimpered every time I pushed him to let the revs go higher than 3K rpm before shifting....
So sad...
So sad...
Good thing I love him!![[rolleyes]](/images/smilies/rolleyes.png "Roll Eyes (Sarcastic) [rolleyes]")
This is the man that bought himself a '98 cobra, and then asked me to teach him how to drive it (it was a manual), and then whimpered every time I pushed him to let the revs go higher than 3K rpm before shifting....
So sad...
So sad...
Good thing I love him!
![[:D]](/images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin [:D]")
Ok, I'll get serious for a moment:
As a woman, I can tell you this. There are probably two reasons why she won't learn to drive stick.
1) She doesn't understand how it works and therefore is afraid of it.
2) Perhaps she's scared of making you mad if she does it wrong and hurts your car. (her mindset here).
I was taught how to drive on a manual transmission. The first time I drove a rental car was the first time I drove an automatic. But I remember that when I was learning, I was soooo worried about hurting my dad's car.
I would summon every ounce of patience you have and sit down with your wife, girlfriend, whomever, NOT in the car - and explain how a clutch works. Use your feet and an imaginary gear shift to show her how it works. Then make sure you explain that as long as she takes her time and doesn't force anything, it's not going to hurt the car.
And then, no matter how many times she's stalls. Don't yell at her. Don't get frustrated. That will just ensure that she'll never drive a stick.
My .02 to take or leave
P.S. M3Monkey - it's Mystic Blue, Gray Leather, Moon Roof, and I'm regretting not getting the adaptive Xenons. It's coming in by the end of October.
As a woman, I can tell you this. There are probably two reasons why she won't learn to drive stick.
1) She doesn't understand how it works and therefore is afraid of it.
2) Perhaps she's scared of making you mad if she does it wrong and hurts your car. (her mindset here).
I was taught how to drive on a manual transmission. The first time I drove a rental car was the first time I drove an automatic. But I remember that when I was learning, I was soooo worried about hurting my dad's car.
I would summon every ounce of patience you have and sit down with your wife, girlfriend, whomever, NOT in the car - and explain how a clutch works. Use your feet and an imaginary gear shift to show her how it works. Then make sure you explain that as long as she takes her time and doesn't force anything, it's not going to hurt the car.
And then, no matter how many times she's stalls. Don't yell at her. Don't get frustrated. That will just ensure that she'll never drive a stick.
My .02 to take or leave
P.S. M3Monkey - it's Mystic Blue, Gray Leather, Moon Roof, and I'm regretting not getting the adaptive Xenons. It's coming in by the end of October.
My first car was a 1978 Suburu........they had it sitting in the driveway of the dealership, my father looked in and said oh my gosh its a stick shift, you dont know how to drive a stick shift, I said watch me......scooted off choking and coughing.....about 6 hours later of constant driving, had it down to a tee...........
Not all men can drive a stick either........on my last date, I suggested we take my car....was showing the particulars of the car and I said what do you want.........manual, sport or plain old drive...........he said just drive is okay....he drove it like a Volvo.......I said, sweetie, its an engineering dream, you got to drive the car like she's meant to be driven.........but no we just kept going down the road like we were in a "tweety bird" card...........says a lot about a guy.......
Not all men can drive a stick either........on my last date, I suggested we take my car....was showing the particulars of the car and I said what do you want.........manual, sport or plain old drive...........he said just drive is okay....he drove it like a Volvo.......I said, sweetie, its an engineering dream, you got to drive the car like she's meant to be driven.........but no we just kept going down the road like we were in a "tweety bird" card...........says a lot about a guy.......
Hey, does anyone here know how to heel-and-toe downshift??? Whenever I need to brake but I also wanna squeeze in a quick downshift, I push the clutch in and blip the throttle, and then immediately start braking as I'm engaging the clutch again (whereas normally, I wait until the lower gear is fully engaged until I start braking). The next fastest thing is heel-and-toe downshift....any pros know how to do that??
It's not easy - especially in a BMW because of the size and placement of the peddles (but I have a smaller foot). I learned to do this in an Alpha. It takes practice and patience.
Basically using fourth to third gear as an example,
1) Begin braking with your right foot. It should be slanted a little to the right, closer to the gas pedal.
2) Push in the clutch with your left foot.
3) Move from fourth gear to neutral
4) With your right foot still applying pressure on the brakes, roll the outside edge of your foot outward and downward to touch the gas pedal. Use the outside of your right foot to the gas to temporarily raise the engine revs to match the wheel speed (sometimes called "blipping the throttle"). The exact amount of revs needed depends on a couple factors, but it is usually between 1,000 rpm to 2,000 rpm more than the current engine rpm for a one-gear downshift.
5) Move the shifter from neutral to third gear.
6) Release the clutch with your left foot.
Does that make sense? It's kinda hard to explain. Click and clack or edmunds can probably do it better than I.
Basically using fourth to third gear as an example,
1) Begin braking with your right foot. It should be slanted a little to the right, closer to the gas pedal.
2) Push in the clutch with your left foot.
3) Move from fourth gear to neutral
4) With your right foot still applying pressure on the brakes, roll the outside edge of your foot outward and downward to touch the gas pedal. Use the outside of your right foot to the gas to temporarily raise the engine revs to match the wheel speed (sometimes called "blipping the throttle"). The exact amount of revs needed depends on a couple factors, but it is usually between 1,000 rpm to 2,000 rpm more than the current engine rpm for a one-gear downshift.
5) Move the shifter from neutral to third gear.
6) Release the clutch with your left foot.
Does that make sense? It's kinda hard to explain. Click and clack or edmunds can probably do it better than I.
Hmmm, sounds good, I will give it a try. I have this video of these guys from Japan racing on a track, BMW M3 vs Porsche Boxster vs Nissan 350Z vs Honda S2000 vs Nissan Skyline GT-R (Cam car). All of these cars were manual transmission and every single one of the drivers were constantly doing heel-and-toe downshifts before they entered the turns (they had a special cam in each car on the right side of floor, aimed right at the pedals). They would show the regular cam and in a small window in the corner of the screen, they would show the pedal cam at what their feet were doing. They all did absolutely superb jobs of heel-and-toe down-shifting and I just wish I could do that !!
Thanks for the explanation, Beemin.![[;)]](/images/smilies/wink.png "Wink [;)]")
Thanks for the explanation, Beemin.
The first time I drove a stick was in my first "new" car; a '78 Toyota Celica. It had 6 miles on it and I stalled it twice on the way home, and also went from second to fifth a couple times. I got home, read the manual cover to cover, and then went up in the mountains and taught myself to drive. I think the best way to really learn is by yourself with no one watching or breathing down your neck. I agree with BEEMIN, explain the process and then give 'em the keys. It wasn't until about two years later that I felt like a REALLY knew how to drive a stick, after I had moved to San Francisco. They always put the stop signs at the top of a hill, and try to parallell park on a 30 degree hill. That's when you figure out what the hand brake is for!
MrElussive said:
Hmmm, sounds good, I will give it a try. I have this video of these guys from Japan racing on a track, BMW M3 vs Porsche Boxster vs Nissan 350Z vs Honda S2000 vs Nissan Skyline GT-R (Cam car). All of these cars were manual transmission and every single one of the drivers were constantly doing heel-and-toe downshifts before they entered the turns (they had a special cam in each car on the right side of floor, aimed right at the pedals). They would show the regular cam and in a small window in the corner of the screen, they would show the pedal cam at what their feet were doing. They all did absolutely superb jobs of heel-and-toe down-shifting and I just wish I could do that !!
Thanks for the explanation, Beemin.
Thanks for the explanation, Beemin.
![[:o]](/images/smilies/redface.png "Embarrassment [:o]")
I think you may want to clarify the stability issue, as you don't normally use downshifting to slow the car down on track, (unless your brakes are poor/gone), you would normally do your downshifting in the straight-line braking zone, not from the turn-in point to the apex, and you wouldn't usually spin out because of light braking while turning (trail braking) or hard braking in a straight line, but rather because of the rapid engine braking that occurs, if you downshift without matching revs, as the drive wheels are slowed to the road speed that corresponds to the (too-low) engine speed in the lower gear selected.
I would say:
The reason for heel-toe down shifting is primarily to keep your car balanced as you slow down [before] a curve. When you step hard on the brakes the balanced weight of your vehicle is transferred from the rear of your car to the front. If you do not heel-toe going from 150MPH down to 40 in a short distance; you [can] spin out as your rear wheel [may] lose traction from the [engine] braking[, whether in a straight line or] as you steer towards the apex on that curve. Take a Skip Barber race driving course if you have $4K to spend. They offer 3 day courses over the summer that is fantastic. [Skip Barber is great, but for those without $4k lying around, buy their book Going Faster! and sign up for your local 1-2 day BMW CCA school, for $150-300.]
I would say:
The reason for heel-toe down shifting is primarily to keep your car balanced as you slow down [before] a curve. When you step hard on the brakes the balanced weight of your vehicle is transferred from the rear of your car to the front. If you do not heel-toe going from 150MPH down to 40 in a short distance; you [can] spin out as your rear wheel [may] lose traction from the [engine] braking[, whether in a straight line or] as you steer towards the apex on that curve. Take a Skip Barber race driving course if you have $4K to spend. They offer 3 day courses over the summer that is fantastic. [Skip Barber is great, but for those without $4k lying around, buy their book Going Faster! and sign up for your local 1-2 day BMW CCA school, for $150-300.]
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Thanks for the advice.
In the video, it looked like these guys were heel-and-toe downshifting simply for optimum braking power before entering the turn and because they would be a lower gear so they had maximum engine power when powering through it.
Have you guys ever been driving and seen a red light ahead, and you want to downshift and brake, but there is not enough time to do both, so you end up just using the brakes and rolling in neutral? That happens to me a lot as I am one who likes to downshift to 2nd (from whatever gear I am in) before I stop. I think I am going to sit in my car one day in neutral, just practicing pushing the brake and then blipping the throttle with the same foot so I understand how it works. And then once I am comfortable doing that, I'll try heel-and-toe downshifting when I am moving...I really wanna learn this, I would be the stick shift master if I could heel-and-toe downshift like a true pimp.
In the video, it looked like these guys were heel-and-toe downshifting simply for optimum braking power before entering the turn and because they would be a lower gear so they had maximum engine power when powering through it.
Have you guys ever been driving and seen a red light ahead, and you want to downshift and brake, but there is not enough time to do both, so you end up just using the brakes and rolling in neutral? That happens to me a lot as I am one who likes to downshift to 2nd (from whatever gear I am in) before I stop. I think I am going to sit in my car one day in neutral, just practicing pushing the brake and then blipping the throttle with the same foot so I understand how it works. And then once I am comfortable doing that, I'll try heel-and-toe downshifting when I am moving...I really wanna learn this, I would be the stick shift master if I could heel-and-toe downshift like a true pimp.
Getting into a lower gear is a separate issue from the heel and toe downshift versus a downshift that uses the synchros to match the rpms. Of course, if you are entering a corner at speed, you will be downshifting to the gear that puts you in the engine's powerband for when you apply the throttle again.
Think about it: Engine braking is stronger when you don't match the rpms in the lower gear. If you blip the throttle and match the revs, you don't get as much engine braking from the downshift, and most importantly you don't get the mad jerk of power that will send you into a spin. The point of matching the revs is to avoid the negatives of engine braking and save wear and tear on the clutch and/or synchros (if you even have them).
The only way to learn it is to do it. I've been trying to do it most of the time for the last year and I think it has finally clicked (more on that later).
Here's a good explanation of something we all know but may fail to consider when thinking about what heel and toe is about. (from a fellow nsxer)
"When your car is traveling at a certain speed, there is a specific engine speed that matches that road speed in any given gear, when the clutch is out. Matching revs during shifts means that while the clutch is pressed in, you adjust the accelerator position so that the engine is turning that exact engine speed, before you let out the clutch.
For example, let's say you have a stock '91 NSX, and you're going 40 miles per hour. Depending on which gear you're in, here is how many RPM the engine is turning:
1st - 6853
2nd - 3854
3rd - 2745
4th - 2158
5th - 1720
Matching the revs means that you try to make the engine turn at the proper number of revs when you're shifting, before you let out the clutch. For example, let's say you accelerate from 0 to 40 mph in first gear, and then you shift. Before the shift, your engine was turning at 6853 RPM. While the clutch is pressed in, you let off the gas enough for the revs to drop to 3854 RPM, hold it there if you need to (not necessary when you get good at this), and then let out the clutch. This means that there will be no change in revs when you let out the clutch - because there is no difference in speed, and no work for the synchros.
This results in the least amount of wear on the clutch."
**
Well, it works both ways. When you are braking from 150 to 40, and you starting going down from 5th to 4th, you need to match revs to the rpm that corresponds to 110 in 4th or 75 in 3rd, etc., until you turn, get on the gas, and make your track out. The good drivers time it all perfectly. I can't do it consistently at 9/10ths or above.
Think about it: Engine braking is stronger when you don't match the rpms in the lower gear. If you blip the throttle and match the revs, you don't get as much engine braking from the downshift, and most importantly you don't get the mad jerk of power that will send you into a spin. The point of matching the revs is to avoid the negatives of engine braking and save wear and tear on the clutch and/or synchros (if you even have them).
The only way to learn it is to do it. I've been trying to do it most of the time for the last year and I think it has finally clicked (more on that later).
Here's a good explanation of something we all know but may fail to consider when thinking about what heel and toe is about. (from a fellow nsxer)
"When your car is traveling at a certain speed, there is a specific engine speed that matches that road speed in any given gear, when the clutch is out. Matching revs during shifts means that while the clutch is pressed in, you adjust the accelerator position so that the engine is turning that exact engine speed, before you let out the clutch.
For example, let's say you have a stock '91 NSX, and you're going 40 miles per hour. Depending on which gear you're in, here is how many RPM the engine is turning:
1st - 6853
2nd - 3854
3rd - 2745
4th - 2158
5th - 1720
Matching the revs means that you try to make the engine turn at the proper number of revs when you're shifting, before you let out the clutch. For example, let's say you accelerate from 0 to 40 mph in first gear, and then you shift. Before the shift, your engine was turning at 6853 RPM. While the clutch is pressed in, you let off the gas enough for the revs to drop to 3854 RPM, hold it there if you need to (not necessary when you get good at this), and then let out the clutch. This means that there will be no change in revs when you let out the clutch - because there is no difference in speed, and no work for the synchros.
This results in the least amount of wear on the clutch."
**
Well, it works both ways. When you are braking from 150 to 40, and you starting going down from 5th to 4th, you need to match revs to the rpm that corresponds to 110 in 4th or 75 in 3rd, etc., until you turn, get on the gas, and make your track out. The good drivers time it all perfectly. I can't do it consistently at 9/10ths or above.
I just know the difference in rpm's. When I downshift from 3rd to 2nd, I have to blip the throttle around 1,200rpm's. When I downshift from 4th to 3rd, I have to blip the throttle around 800rpm's. Or maybe I'm not exactly accurate, but it's like...I just know how much I need to blip the throttle depending on what gear I am in. Sometimes I like to downshift from 5th to 3rd when I have to come to a stop and I give it a nice juicy "blip" (![[:p]](/images/smilies/tongue.png "Stick Out Tongue [:p]")
)and it works real well.
)and it works real well.