330i ZHP versus audi S4

Average Jae · Apr 11, 2004

any updates on the car purchase decision?

i thought about a S4, but the rock hard suspension and crappy sales person turned me away from the audi. and it also would've been near 50k out the door w/ the options.. so i picked up a zhp instead [:D]

can't say i haven't looked back since, but i do love my baby. i just wish i was a better driver to get everything out of her..

but the s4 handling being crappy? there was the M3 v S4 top gear vid floating around. S4 won the track course iirc.. even tho the m3 has better accel.

bmwbozo · Apr 12, 2004

Update on the Car decision...
Test drove the Acura TL and was thoughly disappointed, didn't like the clutch at all and the shifting was very jerky. Steering caught a bump and pulled hard on a turn that I made, and the visibility is not that great. I drove the 330i ZHP and the shifting was fantastic and smooth--no learning curve required--car was tight with a slight bit of understeer, average visability. Waiting to test drive a 330ci ZHP, should be out in a few weeks, and also considering the A4 3.0 and the 3.0 Quattro.
The M3 is too costly if not purchased from the dealer with certified pre-owned, and the dealer jacks the price up for used M3s so that is out (unless I can find one in silver and red leather interior!). S4 is too much money, may as well get a new M3.
Probably will be making the decision in the next two months. I think the dealer will more likely negociate at that time as the model lifespan comes to an end and the competition has good cars. I'd imagine that when the new 3-series comes out that the current model will depreciate in value by probably 3 thousand dollars.

Average Jae · Apr 13, 2004

a4 3.0 quattro doesn't compare to the 330 imo. the quattro slows it down quite a bit. i actually liked the 1.8t better. deck that baby out w/ the 18 inch sports package!! but audis were a bit boring.. sucks you didn't like the TL. i wanted to check it out.. one o these days..

hope you find the right car!

gbf1lm · Apr 13, 2004

why is a used m3 44k ? my dad bought a 12k used m3 convertible for 41k.

and year doesnt really matter bc if ur looking at how many miles on it unless u plan to sell, year makes no diff. right ?

MrElussive · Apr 17, 2004

Yo I sat in the new Audi S4 at the auto show today...it was really nice, inside and out. The interior was very comfortable, the clutch was surprisingly light, and the shifter seemed nice and easy. In fact it felt almost "too" relaxed for such a crazy sports sedan.

Roadhawk · May 10, 2004

BMWbozo - so agree about the Acura TL - it looks nice (inside & out), the engine is great (but so "owned" by my S4 - as recently proven this weekend...along with [yet another Sti and a jaguar S R type - or some such...good weekend! [:p]

) - anyway - yeah - the TL is not a sports car - no way - feels like a souped up lexus - luxury way over sport. The clutch action was soft and very difficult to get used to - the torque steer was nasty (BTW someone had said something about torque steer in the S4 - come now...the only time I've ever really experienced such was in brutally hard acceleration on some rough road - and even then it was an awesome fel as the car was clawing foreward - anyway...) - and the body roll in the TL - forget about it...not at all the car for me - it felt much bigger then it was - and thats a (very) bad thing - IMO.

Regarding your dilema - a couple of things. First you need to drive each car and see which one fits you and your driving expectations. Secondly you need to think through how you'll be using the car - for instance do you need AWD (its awesome really - in most.many circumstances) - and will you be keeping car pretty stock or modding.

You may want to consider a used S4 - with the twin turbos. It is very easily modded to give impressive power (enough where I can take a new S4 without problem...). And with some more tweeks - suspension lowering and coilovers - that sort of thing - it handles and tracks like a champ - I have virtually no body roll (significantly less then the ZHP for instance). And the quattro - well what can I say - i can do some awesome things in it - wet or dry..and in the wet, in the snow - its just unbeatable - and I proven such many times...

All that being said the 330 ZHP is a fine fine auto that will provide pleasurable/exciting driving - with a much more compliant ride (S4 rides a bit harsh - but not too bad really - at least for me). It seems a tad more nimble with a tad better road feel then the Audi (but its very close) - and as someone has pointed out there is just a bit more backseat leg room. This was very noticible - even though it didnt seem like much. I drive with my seat quite a bit back. In the Audi there is barely room for my kids legs. My eldest - who is 11 - doesn't like it - even though he can fit. He was much happier with the room behind the seat in the BMer - so perhaps a consideration.

You can't go wrong with either vehical - why I am getting one of each perhaps... [:D]

....just need to determine whic is best for you...and the new S4 is a bit more expensive really...almost at the M3 level (and that would be a tough choice...again depending on what you want to do with it...where and when etc - I certainly like having no limitations [except maybe curb height etc] in the S4...but if thats [winter weather etc] not a concern) then maybe the BMer makes more sense - it may be just a tad more [easily] drivable...we'll see - I know I am going to enjoy it emensly.... [burnout]

Oh and one more thing - I think you have the 0-60 wrong for the new S4 - I think its more like 5 sec....believe me it is significantly faster then the ZHP - significantly - as is my twin turbo S4. To be honest - going form my S4 to the ZHP test drives the ZHP felt downright slow (sure some is the liniearity - but its really not in the same league - trust me. And 0-60 is far from teling the whole story. 0-120 or 1/4 mile times much better...even then...what I like in my S-4 is that at any point I can just hit it and if I don't quickly rein it in I'm in triple digits climbing fast - this is real world useable power. The ZHP has that too certainly - but at a bit more sedate level - or one must work the revs more it seems...

flashinthepan · May 18, 2004

From a style/Looks perspective, I say either BMW. The S4 is an awsome vehicle - I give it its share of respect, but imo it has a rather sedate look, not necessarily a bad thing, just a bit less agressive looking.

3 very good cars.

Roadhawk · May 18, 2004

flashinthepan said:

I don't completely disagree - but I think the A4/S4 is really a nice looking car - more conservative certainly - but executed very nice - and I've personally always preferred the look of the Avants - be it new model or - like mine - old - they are about the sharpest looking wagons out there IMO. Also - with soem nice wheels and lowered the S4 can look pretty awesome (and quite agressive) in its own right...

Militant-Grunt · May 21, 2004

You need to remember that even though the S4 has 5.6 to 60, its still not much slower than a m3, watch the topgear review m3 vs s4, the s4 is AWD so it handels better in the corners, while the m3 is RWD so its a bit harder. Id personally go with the BMW since it is just a lot more fun.

Roadhawk · May 21, 2004

Militant-grunt -

I beg to differ about the S-4 being any less fun then an M3...different fun (all weather fun for one - and believe me these can be great thrills). Also it is so easy to mod a Bi-Turbo engine to give it gobs of HP/torque basically narrowing or eliminating any straight line performance gap between the Ms and the S4. Not sure about handling however as S4 tends to be a bit nose heavy and can want to plow a bit (mine is less then most with its taughter/lowered suspension)..but still - I would tend to give the edge here to the M3...depends on the corner...as the AWD does pull like a tiger out of the bends. Believe me though - the S4 is a super fun drive. I've never driven an M - but I can only imagine...and I can guess that it is more tossable and the engine is so so sweet...still again - don't discount the S...its an awesome car in its own right..and in the wet (and snow) it is unstoppable. I tend to switch my (APR) chip off (back to facotry spec) in snow/ice conditions - but not in rain - full out baby!...and I basically can full power it in the snow - and just go go go!!!! Its really a blast! I've never encountered any vehical that can even remotely keep with me in rain or snow conditions.... [burnout]

Section_8 · May 21, 2004

Roadhawk said:

330xi?

Audi's are champs at AWD, however BMW's are very nice and continually getting better with their AWD.

S4's sound nice too, there are actually 3 that park at my work's parking deck, (and all on the same level with most of the BMW parkers, it's the 'german' level I guess). It's a nice car but heavier than a BMW (usually hard to do..).

I like Audi's with a drop and big wheels, anything else just looks too passive, and un-fun (and small) to me. (I don't fit in Audi's well, bmw's been the best for my height so far). An S4 with a good drop, big wheels, and tight suspension would certainly appeal to me. But if I had all that, I'd just rather have the BMW M3 in the Poll (Assuming it's an E46 at that cost).

All 3 great cars, hard decision.. Which one can you get the most taken off if you sweet talk the salesman? [burnout]

Militant-Grunt · May 21, 2004

unlucky for me bmw of manhattan dosent let test drive m3s, gotta find out where there is a audi dealer in the area. Ill see for me self = P

Bmw 325i 7803 · May 23, 2004

Militant-Grunt said:

They didn't even let me test the 325i before I got it, naturally they won't let you test drive an m3... Bad dealer period.

Militant-Grunt · May 24, 2004

Go to http://www.flixvault.net they have a BMW M3 Vs. Audi S4 review... Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear reviews them.

Nelson330ci · Jun 8, 2004

Hey BMW bozo, you sound like me several months ago only I was deciding between a 01 S4 & a 01 330ci.
Anyways, you have to weight the options/styles you'll most appreciate. Of course Audi & BMW guys/forums will vow for thier own gernerally. Listen, it sounds like the m3 is out; That said, the price of a new 330 (ZHP) will be more than that of the Audi (A4), but the bmw will be a better car. I like audi's Quatto system & if I really needed quatto I would choose the audi, but the A4 1.8t & 3.0 engines are really not exciting to drive. However the gas guzzeling V8 S4 (if its an option) is fun to drive (awesome power band), yea its heavy (not as agile as 330), but its' a LOT of Car! The 330 ZHP or not is a more spirited (lighter) daily driver, while the new S4 is a Autobahn touring car..both nice, but very different.

R/T & car mags alike usually choose BMW. (M3 over S4 & 330 Over A4) Comparing the new S4 to the 330 is not a level play.

Good Luck and keep us informed of your decision.

PS I choose the 330ci & love it! [:)]

Roadhawk · Jun 8, 2004

Actually I would generally agree with Nelson here - the 330 is a more exciting drive then the standard A4. However the AWD has its benefits certainly and the (twin turbo) S4 - particularly one like mine which is lowered and sprung tighter - can be a very spirited drive on par or even exeeding the 3 series (even ZHP) IMO...and again its so easily chippable to provide power equal or greater to that of even the new V8 S4 (and its a bit lighter/nimbler - no matter what Audi says about the V8 not adding weight...). I feel very fortunate to also be getting a 330 ZHP - it is a very spirited car and its suspension is very tight (significantly/noticibly better then even the sport package IMO). The ZHP will become my daily driver - mostly for the better gas mileage (S4 is also a guzzler in the stop and [stomp it!] go!)..and I expect the ZHP to be quite a bit better (though not mizerly by any means). And while the S4 is certainly very tossable (even considering its not insubstansial weight) I do expect the 3 to be a bit more spritely...and it will be fun to turn traction control off and let the rear end slide around a bit...I miss that as I'm not driving my MR2 now...and the Audi can barely be made to slip even in the most rough surfaces on full accel...it just hangs (sometimes with a good deal of squeal & some roll) and then rockets out of turns like a bat out of hell - turbos growling/whining away while your pushed back hard! ... [:)]

Oh and not to dispute R&T perferring the M or 3 series versus the S or A (as we all know BMW record of supremacy in these type of comparos) - but Audi has been holding its own quite well of late and the S4 (both guises) & RS6 have compared favorably....

fast eddie · Jun 8, 2004

Go for the BMW. Your only real choice is coupe or sedan.

It's not the HP or the torque that make a car fast, its being able to transfer that power to the pavement and no one does that better than BMW. The suspension and steering of the BMW will make you feel a lot more confident in the corners. The torque steer of the S4 will also feel akward when you just want to punch the accellerator.

Good Luck

Roadhawk · Jun 9, 2004

There is no torque steer in the S4 - none - Ok on the rarest occasion with some very rough/uneven road and very hard acceleration - but thats it - and even then its fun clawing foreward type of torque steer - nothing that detracts at all - beleive me. The S4 takes corners like a champ. I regularly pass various BMWs and most other cars in the twisties & corners (and I mean ones who are pushing it...)- be they long sweepers or very tight - single or S combinations or what have you. The combination of power, roadholding and AWD tenacity of the S4 is simply amazing. There I said it. [hihi]

I never get tired of driving this car - and still just take it out late night sometimes to mash twisties, straights and what have you...and in any weather...

zrated786 · Jun 9, 2004

R3LzX · Jun 9, 2004

e46 M3

330i ZHP versus audi S4

Which Car would you get?

Used M3 with 25K miles for $44,000

New 330i ZHP (with zenon only) $41,000

New S4 (no luxury package) $43,000

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