Gas?????
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if you are using a lower octane fuel the car may not perform to the top potential. modern cars have what they call knock sensors, as cars running at high temps w/ lower octane ratings tended to brake down faster, making hte knocking sound.
modern cars can detact this, and automatically retard the engine perf to prevent premature breakup of gas molecules due to the lower octane rating. so yea, you can get away w/ lower octane, but then wth is the point of getting a 330i, if yer gonna put in a crappy gas to get 325 perf? but good job on saving your pennies..
also, i noticed that even in cars that don't require the higest octane level, you get better gas milage w/ the more expensive gas. so i think in the long run, you pay about the same, just fewer gas station stops. but thenagain, that's my experience, and not scientific at all. ymmv
modern cars can detact this, and automatically retard the engine perf to prevent premature breakup of gas molecules due to the lower octane rating. so yea, you can get away w/ lower octane, but then wth is the point of getting a 330i, if yer gonna put in a crappy gas to get 325 perf? but good job on saving your pennies..
also, i noticed that even in cars that don't require the higest octane level, you get better gas milage w/ the more expensive gas. so i think in the long run, you pay about the same, just fewer gas station stops. but thenagain, that's my experience, and not scientific at all. ymmv
Hey, something I can help with......
After hitting the break-in period somewhere in Spain, I immediately wound the car up to the max speed 134-136..... and drove that way for about 20-25 minutes, then I needed gas...
It's very quality orientated the way BMW engages their govenor... some cars in the past I drove, when the govenor kicked in (took over), it cut the fuel supply, there-by killing the motor... not the best thing at high speeds.. lose power steering, power brakes, lights kick over to battery power (not as bright).... but..... our beloved Bimmers shut down cylinders slowly (at least that is the best description I can give).. total control and SMOOTH when the govenor engaged and dis-engaged... it was possible to actually get a run so when the govenor kicked in, you could hit 140 (momentum) but I felt that at the RPM I didn't want to chance detonation when the cylinders re-engaged... never heard any noises nor felt any vibration throughout the process...
As far as driving at 135 for long periods? flawless.... didn't matter downhill, uphill (and there was quite a few inclines 14%) that extendended so long the autostrada opened up a third land... the car had NO problem maintaining the speed up the hills.
Guess what? I took a couple of pictures of the speedo (while the wife was sleeping cause she would freak out when I tried taking them and drive while she was awake)..... As soon as I figure out how to post them... I will..... I remember the rpms were not very high (4000-4500)and mpg wasn't bad for running 135 (12-15)
oh yeah, that was on 83 octane...
Peace,
Krafty
After hitting the break-in period somewhere in Spain, I immediately wound the car up to the max speed 134-136..... and drove that way for about 20-25 minutes, then I needed gas...
It's very quality orientated the way BMW engages their govenor... some cars in the past I drove, when the govenor kicked in (took over), it cut the fuel supply, there-by killing the motor... not the best thing at high speeds.. lose power steering, power brakes, lights kick over to battery power (not as bright).... but..... our beloved Bimmers shut down cylinders slowly (at least that is the best description I can give).. total control and SMOOTH when the govenor engaged and dis-engaged... it was possible to actually get a run so when the govenor kicked in, you could hit 140 (momentum) but I felt that at the RPM I didn't want to chance detonation when the cylinders re-engaged... never heard any noises nor felt any vibration throughout the process...
As far as driving at 135 for long periods? flawless.... didn't matter downhill, uphill (and there was quite a few inclines 14%) that extendended so long the autostrada opened up a third land... the car had NO problem maintaining the speed up the hills.
Guess what? I took a couple of pictures of the speedo (while the wife was sleeping cause she would freak out when I tried taking them and drive while she was awake)..... As soon as I figure out how to post them... I will..... I remember the rpms were not very high (4000-4500)and mpg wasn't bad for running 135 (12-15)
oh yeah, that was on 83 octane...
Peace,
Krafty
Putting 89 octane in a 330 will NOT slow it down to 325 performance. C'mon guys, it's all in your head.
YES the higher octane will burn cleaner.
YES the higher octane will give you top performance.
YES with the higher octatin you may get a MINIMAL increase in mpg.
NO you will not ruin the engine by 150,000 miles with mid-grade (89).
NO you will not slow your car down by 1 second in the 0-60 run with mid-grade.
NO you will not run a 0:20 ¼ mile if you use mid-grade, nor will you run a 0:12 ¼ with premium.
I'm not sure about the cost of gas in everyone's areas, but it's about a .10 to .15 more for premium around here... let's assume the cost of 89 is $1.50 and the cost of 91+ 1.63. Not unheard of, right? On a 16gal 3 series tank that's $24 for a full tank of 89 and 26.08. I fill up once a week with mid-grade for total of $1,248 for the year. I average 24mpg for the year. That's about 19,968 miles per year at a cost of $0.0625 per mile. My premium fill ups would cost $1356.16 per year. Let's assume 25mpg for the premium for a total of 20,800 miles per year at a cost of $0.0652 per mile.
Yes, I am saving my pennies with every mile I go to the tune of $108 each year. And my bimmer screams and guess what? Even with the crappy mid grade fuel it still handles like a dream (read with sarcasm). Anywho - there IS a cost increase with premium - even WITH the higher gas milage.
Everyone do this: Go let your spouse/sister/brother/parent fill up your tank and randomly put in either mid-grade or premium. Have them do this 10 times and record your guesses. I'd be surprised if anyone would do better than 60%. And even that's all luck since it's a 50/50 chance...
YES the higher octane will burn cleaner.
YES the higher octane will give you top performance.
YES with the higher octatin you may get a MINIMAL increase in mpg.
NO you will not ruin the engine by 150,000 miles with mid-grade (89).
NO you will not slow your car down by 1 second in the 0-60 run with mid-grade.
NO you will not run a 0:20 ¼ mile if you use mid-grade, nor will you run a 0:12 ¼ with premium.
I'm not sure about the cost of gas in everyone's areas, but it's about a .10 to .15 more for premium around here... let's assume the cost of 89 is $1.50 and the cost of 91+ 1.63. Not unheard of, right? On a 16gal 3 series tank that's $24 for a full tank of 89 and 26.08. I fill up once a week with mid-grade for total of $1,248 for the year. I average 24mpg for the year. That's about 19,968 miles per year at a cost of $0.0625 per mile. My premium fill ups would cost $1356.16 per year. Let's assume 25mpg for the premium for a total of 20,800 miles per year at a cost of $0.0652 per mile.
Yes, I am saving my pennies with every mile I go to the tune of $108 each year. And my bimmer screams and guess what? Even with the crappy mid grade fuel it still handles like a dream (read with sarcasm). Anywho - there IS a cost increase with premium - even WITH the higher gas milage.
Everyone do this: Go let your spouse/sister/brother/parent fill up your tank and randomly put in either mid-grade or premium. Have them do this 10 times and record your guesses. I'd be surprised if anyone would do better than 60%. And even that's all luck since it's a 50/50 chance...
Just wondering. Why do you think that BMW calls for 91+ octane? You think they get a kick back from the oil companies? Hardly. These cars were designed to run on premium fuel and that is what you should use. The reason you car will run on 89 or 87 octane is that BMW has a built in safety feature that will allow your motor to run on crappy gas without damage in cases where you can't get good gas. You ARE giving up performance. To me it doesn't seem a good idea to have the engine management software constantly retarding the timing just to save $.30 a day on gas.
It never ceases to amaze me when people buy a performance car and then cheap out on a couple of cents worth of gas. Just buy a Prius. You can get 55 MPG and use regular gas (and save big $ on the original purchase).
It never ceases to amaze me when people buy a performance car and then cheap out on a couple of cents worth of gas. Just buy a Prius. You can get 55 MPG and use regular gas (and save big $ on the original purchase).
A 325/330 is hardly a 'performance car'. Yes it does quite well but let's face it - it's bread and butter is the handleing and driving dynamics of the car, NOT raw in-your-face HP. If I were to purchase a performance car such as an M series, Ferrari, Lambo or others I would indeed put premium in it. Have you taken a look at every frickin' owners manual out there? They practically all require a higher octane that what people put in them. Even my '01 LS wanted premium... and I tried it a few times, but there is no huge benifit in performance or gas milage. Plus at the time gas prices were out of control, so why do it?
If the automakers didn't want you to use a mid-grade fuel they'd leave out those 'safety features' out and let the engine knock and scare the crap out of the owner. In addition, they would get their lawyers to rework the working in the warrenty papers to void all engine repairs should you use less than required octane gas... Just like Ferrari and the Enzo.. don't follow our factory guidelines for maintainance and guess what? No more warrenty or vehicles for you!
Let me pose another question to the group - So do you change your oil before BMW says so? $10 says nearly everyone on this board does. But WHY?! The MANUAL says let the CPU decide when to take it in!!!! So BMW is wrong on that, but right on the octane issue?!
Not trying to stir the pot, but to open some eyes...
If the automakers didn't want you to use a mid-grade fuel they'd leave out those 'safety features' out and let the engine knock and scare the crap out of the owner. In addition, they would get their lawyers to rework the working in the warrenty papers to void all engine repairs should you use less than required octane gas... Just like Ferrari and the Enzo.. don't follow our factory guidelines for maintainance and guess what? No more warrenty or vehicles for you!
Let me pose another question to the group - So do you change your oil before BMW says so? $10 says nearly everyone on this board does. But WHY?! The MANUAL says let the CPU decide when to take it in!!!! So BMW is wrong on that, but right on the octane issue?!
Not trying to stir the pot, but to open some eyes...
BMW dealer turned me away from an oil change because I was not "due" yet. ![[bigcry]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_bigcry.gif "Big Cry [bigcry]")
Think about this: 95% of us will not have their car long enough for the problems such as lower octaine or "following bmw oil change rule" to really show up. It just costs us more and we are passing the benefit to the person who will really benefit from it when we move on to a different model: some teenager who buys a 15 year old BMW to look cool.
Think about this: 95% of us will not have their car long enough for the problems such as lower octaine or "following bmw oil change rule" to really show up. It just costs us more and we are passing the benefit to the person who will really benefit from it when we move on to a different model: some teenager who buys a 15 year old BMW to look cool.
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Haven't you ever heard any cars going down the road pinging like hell? I have. Allowing a car to ping wouldn't do anything to get people to use the required gas. Only car enthusiasts would notice such a thing. Oh, and by the way, the definition of "performance car" is not just horsepower. All driving dynamics are taken into concideration when defining a performance car. A 325/330 is called by definition "sports sedan/coupe". Does sports mean family car to you? It doesn't to me. I used to have a 2000 Ford Lightning pushing 372 HP at the rear wheels. It did a great 1/4 mile times. That also required premium fuel. Would it run on 89 octane. Not even. Ford had to disable the knock sensors because the supercharger whine would activate them. If you don't thing there is any difference in performance between 89 and 91 octane, just fill a Lightning with 89 and see what happens.
Your right Push, 95% will not keep their car that long. I also will go so far out as to say your not helping the economy any by having your car last 300,000 miles. Run it into the ground, let someone else drive it for 50k and scrap it. Go buy a new one, support the global economy.
The only thing is thread is going to resolve is that many will agree to disagree. People will say "That jackass dzervit really doesn't DESERVE his BMW since he abuses it with that swill he calls mid-grade" and I'll continue to see little peformance/mpg gains in my 325 if I switch to premium. To each his own. Pick your fuel and go with it.
The only thing is thread is going to resolve is that many will agree to disagree. People will say "That jackass dzervit really doesn't DESERVE his BMW since he abuses it with that swill he calls mid-grade" and I'll continue to see little peformance/mpg gains in my 325 if I switch to premium. To each his own. Pick your fuel and go with it.
Uhg.. .an SVT Lightning REQUIRES that premium due to it's supercharger and tuning. If I were to slap on a supercharger and other required mods to my 325, damn straight I would put premium in it. You don't have to have a PHD to understand that.
A plain 'ol 3 series is a sports sedan, but not a highly-tuned and blown racing machine. Every car has it's purpose. A lightning for raw power and straight-away fun, an Enzo for the ulimate road-legal performance and speed, and the 3/5 series for everyday driving pleasure. A 5 series makes a nice family car and gives dad a smile while driving. A 3 series is a nice vechile for single folks and newly weds who want great handling, smooth ride, and all around fun-to-drive factor.
Your not going to sell me on the 'my 330 is a super-tuned performance car that must have the best fuel out there' argument. That's why BMW has the M series.
It's also obvious I will not sell you on the 'my 3 series is just a grocery getter that doesn't need premium fuel' either.
A plain 'ol 3 series is a sports sedan, but not a highly-tuned and blown racing machine. Every car has it's purpose. A lightning for raw power and straight-away fun, an Enzo for the ulimate road-legal performance and speed, and the 3/5 series for everyday driving pleasure. A 5 series makes a nice family car and gives dad a smile while driving. A 3 series is a nice vechile for single folks and newly weds who want great handling, smooth ride, and all around fun-to-drive factor.
Your not going to sell me on the 'my 330 is a super-tuned performance car that must have the best fuel out there' argument. That's why BMW has the M series.
It's also obvious I will not sell you on the 'my 3 series is just a grocery getter that doesn't need premium fuel' either.
i don't think a knock sensor is really a safety feature. rather a device to check to make sure the engine temp is appropriate for the octane level of your gas. if they didn't include such 'safety features' as you say, and you put in a lower octane gas, the engine will run hot, and will burn through your gas much faster, so you won't be saving your $108 a year, rather will have to pay more due to crappier gas milage. so instead of that to piss off the consumers, auto makers put in the knock sensor to retard the engine perf to keep everyone happy.
in reality engine perf has nothing to do w/ octane grade. it's the heat level of the engine that has everything to do w/ the octane grade. altho they sort of go hand in hand since higher perf engines do run hotter, but theoratically you can have a crappy hot running engine that will requre a higher octane level gas. (not very well tuned, and everyone will flame it and won't sell.)
most of the modern engines are already quite tweaked to get every hp possible. remember that earlier v6 models or even v8s couldn't pull 200 horses, but with modern tech and tweaks such is possible. w/out the aid of a blower. the sweet 3.2 liter found in the m can achieve what they can due to more expensive parts, along with tweaking, but don't mistake the 'lesser' engines to be non tweaked, just because it can't belt out 333 horses. such tweaks to eek out every horse from the engine will sometimes require the engine to run hotter, and thus needing a higer octane level to ensure proper performance. just see how the new 325s are belting out same number of horses as the older 328s w/ 300cc less displacement.
just because a car doesn't hit the magic hp mark of an exotic or a 'sports car', doesn't mean it's not performing at its peak level, so don't get that confused. but it's your car, your money do as you please, just don't mislead.
in reality engine perf has nothing to do w/ octane grade. it's the heat level of the engine that has everything to do w/ the octane grade. altho they sort of go hand in hand since higher perf engines do run hotter, but theoratically you can have a crappy hot running engine that will requre a higher octane level gas. (not very well tuned, and everyone will flame it and won't sell.)
most of the modern engines are already quite tweaked to get every hp possible. remember that earlier v6 models or even v8s couldn't pull 200 horses, but with modern tech and tweaks such is possible. w/out the aid of a blower. the sweet 3.2 liter found in the m can achieve what they can due to more expensive parts, along with tweaking, but don't mistake the 'lesser' engines to be non tweaked, just because it can't belt out 333 horses. such tweaks to eek out every horse from the engine will sometimes require the engine to run hotter, and thus needing a higer octane level to ensure proper performance. just see how the new 325s are belting out same number of horses as the older 328s w/ 300cc less displacement.
just because a car doesn't hit the magic hp mark of an exotic or a 'sports car', doesn't mean it's not performing at its peak level, so don't get that confused. but it's your car, your money do as you please, just don't mislead.
Just to agitate this a bit more......I am not going to worry about spending $100/yr for premium vs. mid-grade just to see if I can save the money. Is $100/yr gonna make or break your budget?
If you cannot tell the difference then why not go with the recommended grade? Spring for the $100/yr. It's $100. ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS!!!! I mean after all you spent on the vehicle and all you care for her, why shortchange her on an integral part of her system?
I bet you wouldn't think twice about dropping a hundred bucks on a nice dinner with your lady....and your just gonna crap it out the next day!!!!!!!!
If you cannot tell the difference then why not go with the recommended grade? Spring for the $100/yr. It's $100. ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS!!!! I mean after all you spent on the vehicle and all you care for her, why shortchange her on an integral part of her system?
I bet you wouldn't think twice about dropping a hundred bucks on a nice dinner with your lady....and your just gonna crap it out the next day!!!!!!!!
I understand that octane is *basically* a rating of how volatle the fuel is, and how the lower octanes can ignite prematurely as the engine heats up while a higher octane will not ignite until the spark is fired blah blah blah. I still BARELY see any increase in HP & MPG. And EVEN if I DO get the extra MPG, it's already offset by the cost of the fuel. And am I going to ruin the engine? No, not bloody likely. No I haven't heard cars all around me pinging like hell - my windows are up and my ridiculously clear and loud stereo are pumpin' out the tunes. I listen to my vehicle occasionaly to ensure all is well and the rest of the time I'm drowning out the idiots with their insane exhaust systems.
As the the $108 (a conservative estimate by the way) I'd save in a year by running mid-grade - no it won't break the bank to just get premium. I've wasted plenty of $ in my life, but that's how I choose to spend my hard-erned cash. However some folks work just to support their car/house/stereo system and may need to be a little more fiscally responsible. And YES I understand someone with that tight of a budget should more than likely have a little something more conservative than a BMW, but that's life.
My whole point of starting this crap is that you CAN run mid-grade fuel SAFELY and not harm your vehicle. Not I NEVER stated to run regular 87 octane, as the larger difference CAN start to cause issues. I don't know what kind of gas you guys have elsewhere, but the local Shell & Mobile stations mid-grade fuel has never let me down.
I agree to DISagree with you guys on this peticular topic. You make some valid points, and I feel that I have as well. Can't we all just get along?
![[cheers]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_cheers.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
As the the $108 (a conservative estimate by the way) I'd save in a year by running mid-grade - no it won't break the bank to just get premium. I've wasted plenty of $ in my life, but that's how I choose to spend my hard-erned cash. However some folks work just to support their car/house/stereo system and may need to be a little more fiscally responsible. And YES I understand someone with that tight of a budget should more than likely have a little something more conservative than a BMW, but that's life.
My whole point of starting this crap is that you CAN run mid-grade fuel SAFELY and not harm your vehicle. Not I NEVER stated to run regular 87 octane, as the larger difference CAN start to cause issues. I don't know what kind of gas you guys have elsewhere, but the local Shell & Mobile stations mid-grade fuel has never let me down.
I agree to DISagree with you guys on this peticular topic. You make some valid points, and I feel that I have as well. Can't we all just get along?
![[hihi]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_hihi.gif "Hi Hi [hihi]"){kind=icon}
[joke] 
How much do you actually save by taking the risk of putting Regular instead of Premium in your car? Honestly, is it worth like the $0.10 per gallon? So every tank you fill up, you save like $2...wow. What I'm trying to say is, in my opinion, the price difference is so marginal it's not even worth it. Besides, what BMW owner can't afford to fill up the tank with Premium??