BMW/Benz Vs Lexus/Infiniti Debate...

sly · Dec 9, 2005

Bmw 325i 7803 said:

I went to the web site of the closest BMW Dealer to me and curiously enough I don't see any of the $40K 330s you mention. Is this real world enough for you? With only a couple of options you are talking $42K when you include destination charges, and well equipped 330s list over $47K. BTW I'm not getting into this BS argument with you that my leather is better than your leather and my plastic is better than your plastic and my paint is better than your paint and my seat warmer is better than your set warmer.

http://www.bmwtowson.com/index.cfm?...&SortFilter=YR&ShowExtraPrice=0&currentPage=3

sly · Dec 10, 2005

For those of you who are unbiased and have an open mind, here's a BMW site that allows you to compare the G to the 330. Although the sticker differance is over 5K for base models, you'll find that many of the standard options on the G are optional on the 330. If you just add options on the 330 to bring it up to how the base G35 is equipped, the differance increases to around $8K. So it appears that MrEllusive was on target with his estimate, and I exaggerated the differance by $2K. Also when you select the power and performance button, you'll see that the G has 43 more HP and 40 more lb/ft of torque than the 330.

http://www.bmwusa.com/BMW2003/Templ...73E-45D5-AE82-269E6AF5BD71}&NRCACHEHINT=Guest

Bmw 325i 7803 · Dec 10, 2005

sly said:

That is the website I went to in order to counter your BS argument. Again the prices of the packages you are referencing contain OPTIONS THE INFINITI DOES NOT HAVE. The premium package contains the metallic paint and leather you are attempting to add. The cold weather package has headlight washers and fold down rear seats along with heated seats which actually warm the seat. Infiniti does not have active cruise control. It also lacks the automatic xenon-headlights and window wipers which are now even offered on economy toyotas. So what if the BMW is expensive with options, thats not a valid comparison. As for the HP the infiniti has 3.5 ltr V6 while the BMW has a 3.0ltr I6 that gets over 30mpg highway and for all that extra HP and torque the infiniti is only .25 a second quicker to 60, big deal...

I am glad that you finally admit that you grossly exaggerated the price. Now to settle this price issue: I'm just going to say that in order to match the infiniti for all of its options (even though Infiniti cannot match all of BMWs options) you would end up paying at most 5-6k extra and end up with EXTRA OPTIONS INFINITI DOES NOT OFFER. Keep in mind the BMW coupe is not out yet either, so that makes the price difference at least $1,000 cheaper which further hurts your comparison.

All I can say is I hope you are happy with your Infiniti, as I am happy with my BMW which I paid close to invoice for. Had I bought Infinitis inferior 2004 offering I would have saved around $2,000 and been miserably making all of the BMW enthusiasts on this site admit to me how unreliable their cars are and how I did the right thing in purchasing the infiniti. I find it ridiculous that you have to come to a BMW board and expect everyone to unanimously agree with you that the BMW is way overpriced and inferior in quality and reliability to the Infiniti in order to justify your purchase.

As for the plastics comparison I never said BMW had better quality plastics, I simple was pointing out that surface area in my car covered with leather upholstry is much greater than in the Infiniti G35. I hope you enjoy your G35 without having to remind yourself that it's supposedly "better" than the BMW every single day. Happy driving.

sly · Dec 10, 2005

I hope you enjoy your G35 without having to remind yourself that it's supposedly "better" than the BMW every single day. Happy driving.

Hey, no hard feelings. I just call them the way I see them. There's nothing wrong with the 330 sedan as long as you don't mind driving a plain underpowered car. Just kidding. I'm happy you got such a great deal and are enjoying your car. As I posted earlier the best car I ever had was my E36 M3, so I have nothing against the BMW brand. [wave]

MrElussive · Dec 10, 2005

BMW325i, the BMW 330i is rated at 255hp and 220 foot pounds of torque, delivering 20mpg city and 30mpg highway (for manual trans) according to the BMW website. My 03 G35C is rated at 280hp and 270 foot pounds of torque, delivering 20mpg city and 29mpg highway (for manual trans). I think those are great numbers considering the engine is larger and cranks out 25 more horsepower and 50 foot pounds more torque. The 0-60 difference between the two cars is around 0.4 seconds....no official numbers from Infiniti, but magazines have tested it from 5.5 seconds to 5.8 seconds to hit 60mph and I am making a personal conclusion of 5.7 seconds.

I think in terms of luxury, it is quite obvious that the E90 3-Series is a far better vehicle than the G35. Although there is a big price spread, the BMW offers things like free maintenance and more luxury and technology features available. I think it all comes down to these conclusions:
1.) The G35 Sedan/Coupe gives you more bang-for-the-buck than a 3-Series.
2.) The BMW 3-Series is not a rip-off or overpriced at all.
3.) The BMW 3-Series needs more power. It's no longer okay to be "just this much slower" when the entire auto industry is in the middle of a horsepower war.
4.) The G35 Sedan/Coupe needs a higher level of quality on things such as the paint job, interior materials, and durability.
Feel free to tell me I am wrong.

Btw, who cares what's better or what's worse. Based on all the posts, none of us regret the decision we made to go with an Infiniti or a BMW or whatever. Just stick to the facts, don't make this thread so personal. I'm not going to sleep better at night by defending my G35C.

Bmw 325i 7803 · Dec 10, 2005

sly said:

The new 330i does 0-60 in 6 seconds manual 6.25 auto, how much faster do you want a daily driver which gets over 30mpg to be? I don't understand this HP thirst... I'm gonna let the plain car comment slide, since I don't believe you meant it. [hihi]

Wonder why the E46 outsold the G35 last year? It's because BMW was selling them at invoice and the price difference was marginal.

As for having nothing against the BMW brand, I find that hard to believe considering how you attack BMW with every other post. At least balance it, I don't side with BMW everytime either...

Bmw 325i 7803 · Dec 10, 2005

MrElussive said:

I conditionally agree with all 4 points with the exception of number 1. When the E46 was being phased out, you could pick it up better equipped for the same price as the Infiniti. Now with the E90, that is probably true, yes the G35 is cheaper and faster. As for the horsepower war, I think the 330 is fine with its low six-second-to-sixty time. It should have more horsepower, but BMW does not care as the car will sell anyway...

As for the facts, the way I see it everyone is bending the facts to support their respective position. The Infiniti is around 5k cheaper than the BMW, but not 10k cheaper. In fact I'll even give on the bang for the buck argument...

BTW, my car is rated at 28mpg highway and I get 30mpg driving normally, if I feather foot it and upset the drivers behind me at the toll booth and merging onto the highway I can get 33-34 mpg. Can the 3.5 V6 do that?

sly · Dec 10, 2005

As for having nothing against the BMW brand, I find that hard to believe considering how you attack BMW with every other post. At least balance it, I don't side with BMW everytime either...

I loved the E36 M, and hated the E46 M. There's the balance you asked for. I can't seem to find a good BMW Dealer near me, and there are three of them. Opps, sorry I can't help myself.

2.) The BMW 3-Series is not a rip-off or overpriced at all.

If we take Bmw 325i 7803 at his word, apparently not everyone agrees with you. Dealers don't sell cars at invoice unless they aren't moving. Go to a Porsche Dealer for example and ask him what kind of discount he'll give you on a $90K 997S. If you are lucky you might get a $1K off list.

4.) The G35 Sedan/Coupe needs a higher level of quality on things such as the paint job, interior materials, and durability.
Feel free to tell me I am wrong.

I think you'll find a big improvement on the '05G's quality. I've had mine for about six months, and it's been perfect. No rattles or squeaks anywhere.

PhatBimmer · Dec 10, 2005

Kick his ass seabass!!

MrElussive · Dec 10, 2005

Yeah, but in the interest of being fair, you have to compare MSRP to MSRP. Based on that, a similarly equipped G35 (Coupe or Sedan) is a solid $7,000 cheaper. Supply & Demand may change things, but that depends on the situation at a certain point in time.

As for gas mileage, I average around 19mpg per tank because I do a lot of city driving, I get stuck in a lot of traffic, and I have a lead foot that refuses to hold back, regardless of gas prices. On the highway at 65mph, I can get around 30mpg but the 280hp V6 is thirsty. I think the 3-Series is better with fuel than the G35, but the difference is not so much (IMO), assuming you have the same driving style and conditions with either car. Of course, as I just mentioned, you're asking a person who doesn't care much for gas mileage. [:p]

Bmw 325i 7803 · Dec 10, 2005

sly said:

As for having nothing against the BMW brand, I find that hard to believe considering how you attack BMW with every other post. At least balance it, I don't side with BMW everytime either...

I loved the E36 M, and hated the E46 M. There's the balance you asked for. I can't seem to find a good BMW Dealer near me, and there are three of them. Opps, sorry I can't help myself.

2.) The BMW 3-Series is not a rip-off or overpriced at all.

If we take Bmw 325i 7803 at his word, apparently not everyone agrees with you. Dealers don't sell cars at invoice unless they aren't moving. Go to a Porsche Dealer for example and ask him what kind of discount he'll give you on a $90K 997S. If you are lucky you might get a $1K off list.

4.) The G35 Sedan/Coupe needs a higher level of quality on things such as the paint job, interior materials, and durability.
Feel free to tell me I am wrong.

I think you'll find a big improvement on the '05G's quality. I've had mine for about six months, and it's been perfect. No rattles or squeaks anywhere.

Your G35 is boring... My 330i is impeccable, I've had it for 18 months and it does not rattle or squeak or break down and I doubt it ever will. Discussion over! [kick] [target]

Unit74 · Dec 10, 2005

Bmw 325i 7803 said:

Yea right pal......... I'm suing BMW over my 330i. It's the biggest piece of crap we have owned.

Obviously you haven't stepped a leg into the new IS350.......It blows the euro crap outa the water, and with it goes the German car mentality so many BMW drivers have............ But I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in peticular [thumbd]

Bmw 325i 7803 · Dec 10, 2005

Unit74 said:

Glad I compelled you to post the above. Enjoy the blind spots. [thumb]

If you don't believe me you are welcome to take a test drive and examine the service records (which include an oil and filter change). You just got a bad BMW (if the above post is actually true and you're not trolling). Also peticular is not a word, you probably were trying to spell particular, and it was a good try. [;)]

Militant-Grunt · Dec 10, 2005

Unit74 said:

I was reading this page for the past 5 minutes, and then this post out of nowhere.

Please have hard facts, and valid points/ comparisons before you make a bold statement. [hatchet]

Bmw 325i 7803 · Dec 10, 2005

Militant-Grunt said:

He does have a valid gripe, he got a bad 2003 3 series, I can empathize. He just shouldn't attack my car (BMW 330i), all that post really needs is a little revision.

MrElussive · Dec 10, 2005

I can't speak for the G35 Sedan, but I can tell you that between a G35 Coupe and a 330Ci Coupe, the 330Ci offers more luxury and the G35C offers more performance. The 330Ci is a great car in terms of performance, but it is one of those cars where just about anybody can get in and drive it fast, safely. I know the G35C is marketed as a luxury sport coupe, but it doesn't do the luxury thing so well (05's and 06's are much better, but the 03-04 models were lacking) and it takes itself so seriously as a sports car. The visibility all around you is not so great, the car grunts and snarls all the time, the suspension and 18" wheels ride hard as hell, and the brake pedal feel is more for hard laps on a track as opposed to a nice progressive feel for the street. The engine and the exhaust absolutely scream when you redline it, the car loves to kick its tail out (while making it controllable enough to recover), and the clutch and shifter are both on the meaty side for this segment of automobile.
Overall, you can easily tell that the heart and soul of this car are all sports car (being based on the 350Z platform, with the engine, tranny, suspension, and other partrs makes this no surprise to me), and the car does not do the luxury thing so great and makes no apologies for it.

You really just have to take your pick...anybody looking for a 330Ci or a G35C should be able to make the decision after test-driving both cars fairly easily...it's simply what suits you better.

Zeratul · Dec 10, 2005

Wow...

Hmm... i have read about 10 posts all at the same time. It seems that sly is putting a full-assult attack on BMW. First of all... i would like to say that the E90 is the NEW model as opposed to the E46 which Nissan says that their G35 compares to. The E90 is FAR better then any G35 out yet. Nissan released their G35 to compare to the E46 NOT the E90.

Second... comparing the '05 330i with the '05 G35 is would say that both cars stock... the 330i wins when it comes to quality...reliability...technology...safety...resale value. The only thing that the G35 has on the 330i is performance. Not saying that the parts are better but that when numbers are shown the G35 is a tad faster (maybe handles a lil better too).

As for Mr.Elussive's 4 points... I agree. BMW's 3-series are meant to be driven spirited hence requires more power. After all the auto-industry is getting more and more HP-hungry. I wouldnt mind having a 330i with at least 300hp and 280ft-lb tourque. However thats not what a straight six BMW (under 40g's) can do. And not what BMW released The E90 for. Obviously a I6 can put out a shitload of power(M3) but it will simply be far more expensive... However i disagree with the first one "The G35 gives you a bigger bang for your buck". Are you saying better value? I wouldnt say that really... look at it this way. The G35 Stock and The 330i Stock... a few G's difference? Yet Have you guys actually seen what goes on behind the scenes when making a BMW form the factory? I recently got this DVD from BMW showing how these cars are built. I was speechless. I didnt know anything like this exists in today's society. I immediatly knew at that point why these cars are priced a little more higher then competitors. it was amazing. the safety.. technology.. testing.. reassurance.. everything. These guys go to the end of the world to make sure every single model they release is a perfection +1 over its predecessor.

All i'm saying is when idiots get into a IS300 or G35 and you ask them why they didnt get a BMW for the price they speant on those cars... they reply... "better value of course"... MY FU**EN ass better value... these people have no idea what they are actually getting in a BMW. All they look at is everything tangible. they are in an illusion that what they have is better than a german car(roughly equal in price).... whatever i wrote too much... my 2 cents...

Dr.Hand · Dec 11, 2005

g35 vs 330

I'm trading my 2003 g35 coupe for a 330xi in Jan 2006 so I'll post back with a more personal comparison in a couple of monthes. major reason for the trade: ALL WHEEL DRIVE. If you live in the northeast you know why.The G35 absolutely does not go in snow unless you put full snow tires,on which I did not do. Also the G35 got poor gas mileage. Mixed city /highway i never did much better than 17-18. When they tweek a 3.5 liter for speed you really lose mileage. It is fast and handles great on dry roads, but at this point I'm happy to lose a tiny bit of 0-60 time for reliability in winter and better mpg. that foot stomp gets expensive. Will post back in Jan.

sly · Dec 11, 2005

Dr.Hand said:

I'm trading my 2003 g35 coupe for a 330xi in Jan 2006 so I'll post back with a more personal comparison in a couple of monthes. major reason for the trade: ALL WHEEL DRIVE. If you live in the northeast you know why.The G35 absolutely does not go in snow unless you put full snow tires,on which I did not do. Also the G35 got poor gas mileage. Mixed city /highway i never did much better than 17-18. When they tweek a 3.5 liter for speed you really lose mileage. It is fast and handles great on dry roads, but at this point I'm happy to lose a tiny bit of 0-60 time for reliability in winter and better mpg. that foot stomp gets expensive. Will post back in Jan.

Hey Dr.Hand - Based on the posts on this thread you should easily be able to buy your 330xi at a tiny bit over invoice.

PhatBimmer · Dec 11, 2005

Jealous?

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