It's Baaaack!! '04 330cic Steptronic slipping AGAIN

[clb]

If replacing the transmission is not an appropriate and acceptable solution, please tell me what IS an appropriate and acceptable solution? Should I be demanding a new car? The Lemon Law requirements have not been met yet.

In my case, I was apparently one of the first five or so people to identify this problem in July of last year. I didn't buy the car with the knowledge that it was going to have this problem. What surprises me is that apparently a few people bought the cars AFTER KNOWING of this problem recently, bought them anyway, and now act indignant when they have to deal with the problem. That is just GOOFY!

Using your words, I believe that I am exercising my right to get a reasonable remedy, so why is MY decision being condemned by E46_Driver?? If you take the time to read back, you will see that he started the inflamatory comments. Two of many comments below, suggesting that we WAKE UP, that I don't realize there is a problem until a third transmission would be required, that I am not an average consumer, that I am not a regular and repeat BMW purchaser (funny how he knows so much about me but knows so little, I was just on the phone today with my dealer looking for another BMW for my daughter!)

Kirby - easy there tiger... In response to your points:

1. Maybe I should have been clearer - for the first few people that discovered this problem (like you), I unfortunately don't think a replacement car is a realistic solution. BMW made a design mistake, now they have to fix it, which for you means replacing the screwed up transmission with a good one. I truly hope they get your situation worked out. HOWEVER..... For people who bought their car 2 weeks ago (like ME), the situation is different. Both the manufacturer and the dealer have known about the problem for many months and they still chose to sell the car without doing a simple test to see if there was a problem, and without disclosing there might be a problem. For me, the lemon law isn't relevant - what the dealer/manufacturer did could very well be considered fraud. And they are doing it right now to hundreds/thousands of other buyers. That is bad news for BMW (in my opinion).

2. I'm with you - anyone who buys a car knowing this might be an issue without checking for it is ridiculous. I myself had no idea of this issue. I never imagined that before I bought a $35K car, I needed to scour the web to make sure the transmission wasn't a piece of crap. I imagine most (not all) consumers went into their purchase similarly. Next time I'll know better, I guess.

The only reason I posted what I did is in hopes of helping someone out a few weeks from now when they figure out their new car is screwed up, find their way to this site, and try to get a feel for what their options are. That I saw, no one had commented on getting a replacement vehicle - all the talk was about new trannys. My only point was that there may be other options in some circumstances.

 

[clb]

IMHO, I'm not so sure that we're going to see so many lawsuits. The problem's been out there for a good solid 6 months already, and I don't know of any. How cost effective is it, considering the expense of a good attorney? And think about what an attorney would have to go through to produce substantiation that BMW/BMWNA knows about this. Perhaps that is why no recall has been issued as of yet. Still, I agree with you that they are not dealing with this in an up-front fashion if they are still selling cars with the defect.

I certainly could be wrong, but I think it's a matter of time. The problem has been out there for 6 months as you say, and that's why its such an issue that they are still selling hundreds of these things every day without checking (at least some of) them out. 2 ways BMW gets sued here in my opinion:

1. Somebody buys a car, finds out there is a problem, wants another car, dealer/BMW says no, and gets sued for fraud.

2. The worse situation, somebody backs out of their driveway/whatever, needs to accelerate quickly to avoid an accident, can't, and gets hit.

The key in both is that BMW and the dealers know there is a problem when the car is sold. It would not be an issue at all to prove this - all the dealer's service records would probably be discoverable, etc. BMW certainly has internal documentation on this issue by now, which would probably be discoverable. The final factor - BMW has a lot of money, so they're a good defendant. A few years ago, a BMW dealer repainted a new car (acid rain or something) and sold it without telling the guy that bought it. Jury gave him $4MM. That was reduced way down on appeal, but still...

They may have been sued already and we don't even know it. I'm not encouraging that at all, I just can't believe that BMW is doing what they're doing here. Hopefully they get the problem worked out soon and everyone puts this behind them.

 

[Bmw 325i 7803]

litigation litigation litigation... Say that 3 times fast.

I certainly could be wrong, but I think it's a matter of time. The problem has been out there for 6 months as you say, and that's why its such an issue that they are still selling hundreds of these things every day without checking (at least some of) them out. 2 ways BMW gets sued here in my opinion:

1. Somebody buys a car, finds out there is a problem, wants another car, dealer/BMW says no, and gets sued for fraud.

2. The worse situation, somebody backs out of their driveway/whatever, needs to accelerate quickly to avoid an accident, can't, and gets hit.

The key in both is that BMW and the dealers know there is a problem when the car is sold. It would not be an issue at all to prove this - all the dealer's service records would probably be discoverable, etc. BMW certainly has internal documentation on this issue by now, which would probably be discoverable. The final factor - BMW has a lot of money, so they're a good defendant. A few years ago, a BMW dealer repainted a new car (acid rain or something) and sold it without telling the guy that bought it. Jury gave him $4MM. That was reduced way down on appeal, but still...

They may have been sued already and we don't even know it. I'm not encouraging that at all, I just can't believe that BMW is doing what they're doing here. Hopefully they get the problem worked out soon and everyone puts this behind them.

"BMW has a lot of money"- another ingrate who wants something for nothing.

"they may have been sued already and we dont even know it (so what are you waiting for lets start sueing -Dr. Greed) I'm not encouraging it at all (hint hint sweetie ofcourse i am)" - Supposed encouragement to would-be scounges.


As for the two reasons given as to why BMW is to be sued they are rebuffed easily.

1) BMW did not knowingly sell the car with the defect, since the occurance isn't that popular (we all found eachother and many joined to say they were affected thats why this issue seems so widespread, go ask a random 3 series owner if his transmission slips and I'd bet 90% would backhand you for trying to 'jinx' them.... well maybe not.) they have not implemented the sliptronic test into their prep procedure. Yes they should, but they don't have to, besides that is to be directed at the dealer not BMW itself. Therefore any arcane lawsuit resulting from this would be against an individual dealership and not BMW AG.

2) Accident from backing out of your driveway and needing to accelerate quickly??? (No comment, well actually yes I am forced to comment I offered to explain why thats invalid, with the exception of extreme circumstances i.e. suddenly appearing tank barreling up the street) When you back out you're supposed to look and if the situation arises that you were to need a "jackpot-tires-squealing" start to accelerate out of a mistake you made in backing out without looking, then that is completely your fault. The cold startup engagement delay is an inconvenice but not a safety hazard.

When reading the above keep in mind this is coming from a BMW customer with a transmission that has more things wrong with it than just the cold startup slip.

Now put your empty wallet away Im sure everyone can use money, but not out of the mouth of our beloved 'manufaktur' BMW AG who is trying to correct the problem. So PLEASE NO MORE!!! lawsuit references unless you got 4 tranny's and the SA stuck his fingers in your eyes, Thanks.

 

[Bmw 325i 7803]

Oh and as for all of you greedy malicious litigious persons who feel like going the extra mile to make everyones job harder I hope BMW NEVER fixes your transmission infact, I hope they box up mine and others with worse off transmissions, ship them to your dealers, and install them in your cars.

 

[mchas11]

It actually might be easier to get into an accident with this transmission than you think. If you are parked on a hill, would the car not roll backwards for the few seconds until the tranny engaged? If there was a car behind you, it is very possible that it would get hit. I am not 100% sure whether or not the car rolls backwards in this case, or if it just doesn't accelerate, but I wouldn't be surprised if it rolled back.

 

[RuflessPhilly]

Oh and as for all of you greedy malicious litigious persons who feel like going the extra mile to make everyones job harder I hope BMW NEVER fixes your transmission infact, I hope they box up mine and others with worse off transmissions, ship them to your dealers, and install them in your cars.

That's not even the slightest bit funny[fake]. Just becuase someone handles a situation diffrently than you, doesn't mean they are wrong. It's all about choices. Grow up, and stop makining this so personal. Do you even read your own posts??? You sound like you need a hug

 

[clb]

Re: litigation litigation litigation... Say that 3 times fast.

"BMW has a lot of money"- another ingrate who wants something for nothing.

"they may have been sued already and we dont even know it (so what are you waiting for lets start sueing -Dr. Greed) I'm not encouraging it at all (hint hint sweetie ofcourse i am)" - Supposed encouragement to would-be scounges.


As for the two reasons given as to why BMW is to be sued they are rebuffed easily.

1) BMW did not knowingly sell the car with the defect, since the occurance isn't that popular (we all found eachother and many joined to say they were affected thats why this issue seems so widespread, go ask a random 3 series owner if his transmission slips and I'd bet 90% would backhand you for trying to 'jinx' them.... well maybe not.) they have not implemented the sliptronic test into their prep procedure. Yes they should, but they don't have to, besides that is to be directed at the dealer not BMW itself. Therefore any arcane lawsuit resulting from this would be against an individual dealership and not BMW AG.

2) Accident from backing out of your driveway and needing to accelerate quickly??? (No comment, well actually yes I am forced to comment I offered to explain why thats invalid, with the exception of extreme circumstances i.e. suddenly appearing tank barreling up the street) When you back out you're supposed to look and if the situation arises that you were to need a "jackpot-tires-squealing" start to accelerate out of a mistake you made in backing out without looking, then that is completely your fault. The cold startup engagement delay is an inconvenice but not a safety hazard.

When reading the above keep in mind this is coming from a BMW customer with a transmission that has more things wrong with it than just the cold startup slip.

Now put your empty wallet away Im sure everyone can use money, but not out of the mouth of our beloved 'manufaktur' BMW AG who is trying to correct the problem. So PLEASE NO MORE!!! lawsuit references unless you got 4 tranny's and the SA stuck his fingers in your eyes, Thanks.

1. Wealthy defendants get sued quicker than poor ones. That's a reality. Please tell me where I said this was a good or desireable thing... Oh wait, you can't because I never said it.

2. You're right - the dealer hasn't made this test part of their prep process, and that's the problem.

3. If you think an accident couldn't result from this condition, you've obviously never been to San Francisco. Your argument about such a situation being your own fault is just absolutely and completely wrong. Maybe that should be the rule, but it's not. It's OK to not know what you're talking about, but don't be arrogant about doing it.

4. What's up with the personal attacks? Empty wallet? You're a douchebag. Maybe karma has something to do with why your can has so many things wrong with it. I hope you get your car and your attitude straightened out.

 

[RuflessPhilly]

Re: Re: litigation litigation litigation... Say that 3 times fast.

1. Wealthy defendants get sued quicker than poor ones. That's a reality. Please tell me where I said this was a good or desireable thing... Oh wait, you can't because I never said it.

2. You're right - the dealer hasn't made this test part of their prep process, and that's the problem.

3. If you think an accident couldn't result from this condition, you've obviously never been to San Francisco. Your argument about such a situation being your own fault is just absolutely and completely wrong. Maybe that should be the rule, but it's not. It's OK to not know what you're talking about, but don't be arrogant about doing it.

4. What's up with the personal attacks? Empty wallet? You're a douchebag. Maybe karma has something to do with why your can has so many things wrong with it. I hope you get your car and your attitude straightened out.

Amen

 

[kumafa124]

Re: Re: litigation litigation litigation... Say that 3 times fast.

3. If you think an accident couldn't result from this condition, you've obviously never been to San Francisco. Your argument about such a situation being your own fault is just absolutely and completely wrong. Maybe that should be the rule, but it's not. It's OK to not know what you're talking about, but don't be arrogant about doing it.

I was in SF two weekends back visiting some friends and as I was leaving in the early morning, my car started slipping pretty bad. I have no doubt in my mind if it wasn't for a early Sunday morning with no cars, an accident happening was very very possible. What happens if I let my friend drive my car instead and she had no idea about this problem when she backs out onto the steep SF streets in traffic?

I think alot of people have made some valid points, but I think some others are getting a little too personal about how one should go about handling this issue. We are all in the same boat and we all want this fix as soon as possible so we can enjoy our cars. I'm not saying we should all sue the heck out of the company, and personally I'm not for that, but in my opinion I rather have people pitching in and trying to find different ways/options to resolve this problem asap than just waiting for another 6 months from the SA or company.

BTW ... the owners with the clutch patch done, hows that? Any problems or slipping?

 

[Bmw 325i 7803]

Re: Re: litigation litigation litigation... Say that 3 times fast.

1. Wealthy defendants get sued quicker than poor ones. That's a reality. Please tell me where I said this was a good or desireable thing... Oh wait, you can't because I never said it.

2. You're right - the dealer hasn't made this test part of their prep process, and that's the problem.

3. If you think an accident couldn't result from this condition, you've obviously never been to San Francisco. Your argument about such a situation being your own fault is just absolutely and completely wrong. Maybe that should be the rule, but it's not. It's OK to not know what you're talking about, but don't be arrogant about doing it.

4. What's up with the personal attacks? Empty wallet? You're a douchebag. Maybe karma has something to do with why your can has so many things wrong with it. I hope you get your car and your attitude straightened out.

sorry didn't know you had feelings.



Ok well since you didn't listen when I said please no more lawsuit references, this is my last response to your comments. (Can't blame you, must be too irresistable.)

1) There you go again exposing your not-so-hidden-agenda again. And yes you implied it was a good solution, and continue to do so with this post.

2) I KNOW I'M RIGHT.

3) That's right I have not been to San Francisco, and we can argue this all day about the extreme situations and the many ways in which an accident can occur. But regardless of what happens it comes down to being both drivers fault since you (If you've ever been to driving school) do not pull out unless there are no cars coming for quite a distance and if you see someone pulling out slowly it is only feasible for you to slow down, even stop. (OH NO!, the car is rolling back what am I gonna do???? How about using the brakes to stop it, or is that too hard for you or the guest driver, if they dont know this then I wouldn't have them driving my car [replying to the other guys post, also applies to your SF situation]. And if you did make an accident from that it is still to a degree your fault and/or the other drivers (either for pulling out or for them not stopping). And my argument is not wrong in this situation its just beyond your limited understanding, as it doesn't involve sueing.

Oh and as for needing a jackpot start out of your driveway... I do realize the line for marriage licenses is long but I'm sure if you curb the excitement and have some patience 'karma' will help you make the cut.[joke]

4) I did not start the hostility in this thread infact it worked out fine for 20+ pages until the "desktop lawyers" stepped in and hijacked it. Second, my car, not "can"(nice way to refer to a BMW Mr. Enthusiast) has only 3 things wrong with the GM Tranny not the car, and I have mentioned them earlier in this thread which you obviously were too impatient to read.

And thats a very generous offer Philly, but I think I'll decline, maybe Clb will accept if he isn't already commited elsewhere. Enjoy your honeymoon

 

[clb]

Re: Re: Re: litigation litigation litigation... Say that 3 times fast.

sorry didn't know you had feelings.



Ok well since you didn't listen when I said please no more lawsuit references, this is my last response to your comments. (Can't blame you, must be too irresistable.)

1) There you go again exposing your not-so-hidden-agenda again. And yes you implied it was a good solution, and continue to do so with this post.

<You are a moron. Exhibit A.>

2) I KNOW I'M RIGHT.

<You are a moron. Exhibit B.>

3) That's right I have not been to San Francisco, and we can argue this all day about the extreme situations and the many ways in which an accident can occur. But regardless of what happens it comes down to being both drivers fault since you (If you've ever been to driving school) do not pull out unless there are no cars coming for quite a distance and if you see someone pulling out slowly it is only feasible for you to slow down, even stop. (OH NO!, the car is rolling back what am I gonna do???? How about using the brakes to stop it, or is that too hard for you or the guest driver, if they dont know this then I wouldn't have them driving my car [replying to the other guys post, also applies to your SF situation]. And if you did make an accident from that it is still to a degree your fault and/or the other drivers (either for pulling out or for them not stopping). And my argument is not wrong in this situation its just beyond your limited understanding, as it doesn't involve sueing.

<You are still a moron. And you can't spell.>

Oh and as for needing a jackpot start out of your driveway... I do realize the line for marriage licenses is long but I'm sure if you curb the excitement and have some patience 'karma' will help you make the cut.[joke]

<I am hoping this made sense in your own head...>

4) I did not start the hostility in this thread infact it worked out fine for 20+ pages until the "desktop lawyers" stepped in and hijacked it. Second, my car, not "can"(nice way to refer to a BMW Mr. Enthusiast) has only 3 things wrong with the GM Tranny not the car, and I have mentioned them earlier in this thread which you obviously were too impatient to read.

And thats a very generous offer Philly, but I think I'll decline, maybe Clb will accept if he isn't already commited elsewhere. Enjoy your honeymoon

<Speaking of lawsuits, it's a good thing you can't be sued for being stupid.>

 

[bahnstormer]

please keep it cool guys, i don't want to lock this thread if it gets too heated
in here. so lets keep it informative, and put out the sparks before the fire
starts.

 

[mlk]

There will be rebuild...I was told

SA called me yesterday that they got ordered parts and scheduled appoitment for today. But tramsmission will be remanufactured they told me. I copmplaint this problem 1.5 month before, I had that time about 3Km now I have 5Km. They told me it's BMWNA policy and ALL problem transmissions exchaged with rebuilt ones. Yes, packing boxes looks like new (I saw them) but remanufactured device is inside .
Why can't we stop driving our pens (hmm, keyboards...) for fruitless discussion and publish this info in some mass media to get more attention to this problem? May be some lawyer wants to make some money on it and shares his profit with us ))) ?

 

[clb]

Re: There will be rebuild...I was told

SA called me yesterday that they got ordered parts and scheduled appoitment for today. But tramsmission will be remanufactured they told me. I copmplaint this problem 1.5 month before, I had that time about 3Km now I have 5Km. They told me it's BMWNA policy and ALL problem transmissions exchaged with rebuilt ones. Yes, packing boxes looks like new (I saw them) but remanufactured device is inside .
Why can't we stop driving our pens (hmm, keyboards...) for fruitless discussion and publish this info in some mass media to get more attention to this problem? May be some lawyer wants to make some money on it and shares his profit with us ))) ?

Dude, you can't say the L-word here. "Bmw 325i 7803" says so.

 

[LarryE]

Re: There will be rebuild...I was told

SA called me yesterday that they got ordered parts and scheduled appoitment for today. But tramsmission will be remanufactured they told me. I copmplaint this problem 1.5 month before, I had that time about 3Km now I have 5Km. They told me it's BMWNA policy and ALL problem transmissions exchaged with rebuilt ones. Yes, packing boxes looks like new (I saw them) but remanufactured device is inside .
Why can't we stop driving our pens (hmm, keyboards...) for fruitless discussion and publish this info in some mass media to get more attention to this problem? May be some lawyer wants to make some money on it and shares his profit with us ))) ?

This is true ... all trannys are rebuilt. But supposedly, rebuilt means all new parts except for the casing. Not sure I believe it, but they say they will stand behind it.

In terms of the other stuff, why don't you go find a "mass media" outlet or lawyer who would be interested in this and let us know when you do. I predict that you will hear/see the yawns.

 

[mlk]

LarryE,
1. I personally don't care about "rebuilt" vs. new one as soon as it covered by their warranty...Only issue if you will sell your car and new would be owner may check the computer data or dealer's database and find that it was rebuilt part on a new car. Of course your car price suffers..
2. Hmm, I guess mass media loves scandals and BMW rivals would be happy to get some steam for their machine . The same about lawyers, they exist as parasites feed themself with scandals

 

[E46_Driver]

Stand behind what??

This is true ... all trannys are rebuilt. But supposedly, rebuilt means all new parts except for the casing. Not sure I believe it, but they say they will stand behind it.

In terms of the other stuff, why don't you go find a "mass media" outlet or lawyer who would be interested in this and let us know when you do. I predict that you will hear/see the yawns.

-------------------------------

The credibility of those who are not seeking resolution is now apparent. Those of us who work and pay taxes in this GREAT COUNTRY US of A are afforded protections. The correct "vehicle" to prosecute this safety issue is NHTSA.

Information here:

http://www.bmwboard.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6548&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

 

[cdotger]

mlk,


Ask your dealer about the clutch pack fix. This will keep your existing tranny and still fix the problem. I had mine done about 2 months ago and no problems so far.

-Carl

 

[mlk]

Carl,
thank you for response! But I guess the problem not to teach the dealer what to do but stop BMW's try to hide the problem....and save next would be owner from the similar hassles.

mlk

 

[Bmw 325i 7803]

Fed Up

This thread makes me sick, I think I'm going to take some vacation time away from it.

All of the newbies who are so concerned with suing and selfish monetary gain need to find something really important to worry about like the future: http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Index.html

I guess after around 400 replys and nearly 11000 views the thread has been hijacked beyond repair, it's been officially desired, everyone file your imaginary lawsuits and complaints now!


Anyhow I'm getting my transmission replaced Monday and the dealer will need to keep it for a few days afterwards (w/ over 5500 miles on it) hopefully it will all be taken care of, and I'll post the outcome.

Till then I'm done with this lost-thread.


So clb enjoy your honeymoon and your one-city-only-marriage-license.[fake]