BMW/Benz Vs Lexus/Infiniti Debate...
- Thread starter Zeratul
- Start date
PhatBimmer said:
Why you getting mad dude, why you geting mad? ![[:p]](/images/smilies/tongue.png "Stick Out Tongue [:p]")
Don't blame BMW itself for how a dealership treats you, thats up to the dealership itself and its technicians.
Don't blame BMW itself for how a dealership treats you, thats up to the dealership itself and its technicians.
I have to admit that there seems to be a lot of G owners whop have little or no tolerance for any kind of problems. Maybe I've lowerd the bar because of my BMW/Porsche experiences.
![[rofl]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_rofl.gif "ROFL [rofl]"){kind=icon}
Very well stated and I'm really sorry you've been to such bad dealerships but the good dealerships are rare......very rare I guess by the complaints I've heard of from people. I went to a Ford Dealership to take my sisters Focus for its oil change and it took them 20mins to attend me and I was standing at the counter the whole time, I would of left but it was the ones they provide which are free so I put up but man they are awfull, and the worst thing is the dealership is called "friendly Ford"
Sorry dude, you don't know the problems I've had to this point. Some are wear-and-tear, some were downright stupid. If all cars have problems, I'd rather go back to a German whip.
LOL That's true, but you did use the word "minor" to describe your problems. I don't think anyone would classify a blown engine or constant RMS leaks as "minor." But I agree each of us has to assess our ownership experience and judge whether or not to buy that car again. Based on the excellent resale value of the G35 coupe, it seems that not many other G owners have suffered from the quality problems that you experienced.
Also with respect to your statement "If all cars have problems, I'd rather go back to a German whip", I have a different view. An indisputable fact is that a buyer pays a substantial premium for BMWs, Porsches and MBs. So if a 330 is going to cost around $10K more than a G35 coupe, what am I getting for my $10K? Is it better performance or better quality or better reliability? Each buyer needs to answer those questions for himself.
LOL That's true, but you did use the word "minor" to describe your problems. I don't think anyone would classify a blown engine or constant RMS leaks as "minor." But I agree each of us has to assess our ownership experience and judge whether or not to buy that car again. Based on the excellent resale value of the G35 coupe, it seems that not many other G owners have suffered from the quality problems that you experienced.
Also with respect to your statement "If all cars have problems, I'd rather go back to a German whip", I have a different view. An indisputable fact is that a buyer pays a substantial premium for BMWs, Porsches and MBs. So if a 330 is going to cost around $10K more than a G35 coupe, what am I getting for my $10K? Is it better performance or better quality or better reliability? Each buyer needs to answer those questions for himself.
PhatBimmer said:
Very well stated and I'm really sorry you've been to such bad dealerships but the good dealerships are rare......very rare I guess by the complaints I've heard of from people. I went to a Ford Dealership to take my sisters Focus for its oil change and it took them 20mins to attend me and I was standing at the counter the whole time, I would of left but it was the ones they provide which are free so I put up but man they are awfull, and the worst thing is the dealership is called "friendly Ford"
I remember even telling the GM at that dealership that I was going to buy a BMW M3 because Infiniti offered nothing remotely comparable. He told me that he understood but that he was confident that I'd be back before too long. He knew that in a few years Infiniti would be back in the performance market, and he also knew that I would remember the service that his dealership provided. And he was right.
the thing is yes in general infiniti is known to have made goals to make thier
service centers above average...
but bmw and merc and many many many other places know that they
don't have to go out of thier way to serve u better b/c u have no choice
there are many many many MANY stupid people in the world that buy
cars, bmw, merc, etc and they just don't know any better so they will
continue to go to the same shitty service center and pay out thier rear
ends for teh same shitty service =]
but yah infiniti in its corporate goals/plans/etc states that cust service is
a big deal to them....
my general opinion is that new cars suck![[:)]](/images/smilies/smile.png "Smile [:)]")
service centers above average...
but bmw and merc and many many many other places know that they
don't have to go out of thier way to serve u better b/c u have no choice
there are many many many MANY stupid people in the world that buy
cars, bmw, merc, etc and they just don't know any better so they will
continue to go to the same shitty service center and pay out thier rear
ends for teh same shitty service =]
but yah infiniti in its corporate goals/plans/etc states that cust service is
a big deal to them....
my general opinion is that new cars suck
Yeah, Infiniti's customer service is amazing. When I do bring my car in for service, at least they treat me extremely well every time. For normal service appointments (when I don't have any problems), the whole procedure is absolutely flawless every time, and they call me afterwards every time to make sure things went nothing short of perfect.
Its not because they have no other choice its because BMW hasn't put its foot up the ass of the owners of the dealerships. A dealership by my house in Illinois called Motorwerks has all luxury cars and so forth (BMW, Merc, Lexus, Infiniti, etc..) and that dealership kisses your ass so much that they are really selling alot of cars from there and the damn place is rich. Anyone that has a recommendation from motorwerks (dealership) is assured a job in any place because they don't deal with shit techs and to get in is close or next to impossible because who ever they have are great or they dont' want to find anyone else.
Point being is dealerships get cars by their CSI rating (Customer Satisfaction Index) and this goes straight to headquarters and if they have a low CSI they don't get the cars they want or the amount they want so do yourself a favor and fill those things out (surveys) and put what you think is correct and call BMWNA (not sure if they care though I've heard bad things) but don't just gripe about it on forums or with your friends because you could make them change. I've also heard about Infiniti being uber nice, I think everyone should be no matter how shitty the car is.
Point being is dealerships get cars by their CSI rating (Customer Satisfaction Index) and this goes straight to headquarters and if they have a low CSI they don't get the cars they want or the amount they want so do yourself a favor and fill those things out (surveys) and put what you think is correct and call BMWNA (not sure if they care though I've heard bad things) but don't just gripe about it on forums or with your friends because you could make them change. I've also heard about Infiniti being uber nice, I think everyone should be no matter how shitty the car is.
Doesn't it just make sense, that for business and customer ties, every dealership should be the best? I fail to understand the reasoning behind dealerships that don't pride themselves in customer service (any business really). Without the customers, where on earth do they make money from??? Buy a car, love the service, tell friends, extra and repeat business from one person. One advantage - open a car dealership and you know you'll make a killing if you treat everyone really well.
We are all in agreement that service is important, but why don't all Dealerships offer great sercvice? For companies like GM, it could be that they got sloppy when they had a virtual stranglehold on the US market. With BMW it could be that for many years, if you wanted a high quality, reasonably priced and practical performance car, you bought a BMW. It simply didn't have any competition in that market IMO. Infiniti is now making some performance inroads with their G35, M35, and M45 models. Of course Infiniti won't get real serious with its performance car offerings until the GT-R is released sometime in 2007 as a 2008 model. This car will have 450 HP and will either be RWD or AWD, and it's clear that Infiniti has its sights directly on the M market. I'm hoping that if nothing else, competition will make the breed better.
![[:o]](/images/smilies/redface.png "Embarrassment [:o]")
My G35 coupe had a MSRP of a little over $36K. Here's the list price for a 330 that is equipped as identically to my G as possible. Of course my G has 19" wheels but I don't see that offered as an option on the 330, but I do know that it is a very expensive option on the M.
If the 450 HP will be a reliability nightmare as you suggest, it would be a first for a Nissan engine. Check out the reliability for the last iteration of the Z which had a high performance engine.
National Base Price
A note about advertising fees $36,600
Regional Adjustment
for Zip Code Change - - -$362
Optional Equipment $9,425
-- Metallic Paint $475
541 Active Cruise Control $2,200
ZPP Premium Package $2,200
ZSP Sport Package $1,600
-- Leather Upholstery $1,450
ZCW Cold Weather Package $1,000
494 Heated Front Seats $500
Destination Charge $695
Total with Options $46,720
Interesting thread. I've owed a 2004 Infiniti G35, but now drive a 2004 325i. The G35 was fast, and much quicker than the 325i, but I found it difficult to get comfortable in the G35. There is also an intangible quality that the BMW has, and that the G35 lacks. Hard to put my finger on it, but it has something to do with the feel of the car. The BMW inspires confidence. Just my 2 cents.
The BMW metallic paint is 10 times superior to Nissans ripoff version...
Infiniti has active cruise control? You do not need a $2,000 cruise control, that's one option I would OPT-out of.
The premium package consists of leather upholstry and seats and more than Infiniti offers, you have to deduct the 1,500 for the leather seats now...![[rolleyes]](/images/smilies/rolleyes.png "Roll Eyes (Sarcastic) [rolleyes]")
The sport package also offers features the Infiniti does not, but thats only $1600
The cold weather package offers features the Infiniti does not, and the heated seats are included, you have to deduct 500 now...
Apparently you hate BMW so much that you cannot even visit their website to get an accurate price quote. Most of the 9,000 in options there is inflated by the inaccurate website you used (edmunds??). Your price comparison is simply unfair and is designed to prove your incorrect point.
Speaking of heated seats...![[hihi]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_hihi.gif "Hi Hi [hihi]")
have you tried warming up with infinitis? I think we should leave out the cold weather package for that reason alone.
As for active cruise control you don't HAVE to buy it if it's not worth the 2k to do so, if Infiniti has it standard, fine, It's an option many people including me wouldn't use.
Speaking of leather upholstry and seats, so much of the Infiniti is plastic that the upholstry term alone becomes a joke. BMW's pleather seats, I'm sure are just as good as infiniti's leather. The paint is another joke, it's included in the premium package, and I'm not going to repeat myself... Also where is Infinitis rain sensing wipers? and auto headlights?
The only options which have merits are the sport and premium packages, which end up giving you options Infiniti does not offer and only costs about 4k more... so that brings us to what 36k +4k= 40k now lets take 2k off MSRP unless of course you don't know how to bargain, and we have an 06' 330i with better quality options for only $2,000 more than the Infiniti. Your $10,000 premium argument has no weight, please don't bring it up again.
Infiniti has active cruise control? You do not need a $2,000 cruise control, that's one option I would OPT-out of.
The premium package consists of leather upholstry and seats and more than Infiniti offers, you have to deduct the 1,500 for the leather seats now...
The sport package also offers features the Infiniti does not, but thats only $1600
The cold weather package offers features the Infiniti does not, and the heated seats are included, you have to deduct 500 now...
Apparently you hate BMW so much that you cannot even visit their website to get an accurate price quote. Most of the 9,000 in options there is inflated by the inaccurate website you used (edmunds??). Your price comparison is simply unfair and is designed to prove your incorrect point.
Speaking of heated seats...
have you tried warming up with infinitis? I think we should leave out the cold weather package for that reason alone.As for active cruise control you don't HAVE to buy it if it's not worth the 2k to do so, if Infiniti has it standard, fine, It's an option many people including me wouldn't use.
Speaking of leather upholstry and seats, so much of the Infiniti is plastic that the upholstry term alone becomes a joke. BMW's pleather seats, I'm sure are just as good as infiniti's leather. The paint is another joke, it's included in the premium package, and I'm not going to repeat myself... Also where is Infinitis rain sensing wipers? and auto headlights?
The only options which have merits are the sport and premium packages, which end up giving you options Infiniti does not offer and only costs about 4k more... so that brings us to what 36k +4k= 40k now lets take 2k off MSRP unless of course you don't know how to bargain, and we have an 06' 330i with better quality options for only $2,000 more than the Infiniti. Your $10,000 premium argument has no weight, please don't bring it up again.
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sly, the G35C does not even have Active Cruise Control available so that's $2,200 which should not be there on your options list. And if you got an 05 G35C for MSRP of $36K, you probably do not have navigation and a few other options which are all there for the 330i. My 03 G35C 6MT with Premium Package, Navigation System, and Trunk Mat (which is everything except for Spoiler/Aero Package), came to $37K even. At the time, it was exactly $7K-$8K cheaper than a 330Ci with the samem options.