Stop complainng about steptronic and...

[cdotger]

Larry you are 100% correct..... makes perfect sense.... My issue is that People are falsly stating with no evidence that the clutch pack fix is faulty and causes problems... This is where I am asking for evidence.... "Not on the TSB" is more appropriate.

Some people on this board have even stated that the clutch pack fix will damage the engine....
which is just not true.... Some people are providing false info to the public.

If we can all stick to the facts this is simple.

Everything that larry says above is factual.... period.

 

[BMW_Driver22]

My experience

I will share my BMWNA experience. After reading the TSB from earlier today, I called BMWNA to confirm what my service advisor was telling me was acceptable. After demonstrating my familiarity with the defect and sharing knowledge of the TSB I was switched to a supervisor. This guy wanted to know how I got a hold of the TSB bulletin and if I was an attorney/?\? Answer was no. After some time on hold supervisor came back on and said I quote "we are going to replace your transmission" that he has spoken with my dealership and everything is set they will call me to schedule the replacement. When I asked him why my dealer said the clucth pack is the same or better he said "BMW uses sealed transmissions" and that BMW does not advise "bench time" on them. Confirmed that the replacement would come from the factory and appologized for the service advisor not being "up to speed". I was blown away.

What is bench time?

 

[LarryE]

Re: My experience

I will share my BMWNA experience. After reading the TSB from earlier today, I called BMWNA to confirm what my service advisor was telling me was acceptable. After demonstrating my familiarity with the defect and sharing knowledge of the TSB I was switched to a supervisor. This guy wanted to know how I got a hold of the TSB bulletin and if I was an attorney/?\? Answer was no. After some time on hold supervisor came back on and said I quote "we are going to replace your transmission" that he has spoken with my dealership and everything is set they will call me to schedule the replacement. When I asked him why my dealer said the clucth pack is the same or better he said "BMW uses sealed transmissions" and that BMW does not advise "bench time" on them. Confirmed that the replacement would come from the factory and appologized for the service advisor not being "up to speed". I was blown away.

What is bench time?

I imagine bench time is time recorded against a repair. So ... BMW doesn't like to crack open trannys if it can replace them completely. That is perfectly in line with everything we have heard.

I am amazed that you had a positive experience with BMWNA. That's great to hear. It's very rare from what I understand. Good luck!

 

[Boatman]

"Benchtime"-Basically it is cheaper for BMW to have the dealer install a "new" corrected transmission instead of the tech disassembling the trans, replacing parts, reassembling, and reinstalling. It gets us on our way a lot faster too (with the repair). I doubt if most dealers have a good tranny tech as they are quite complex. Some have stated that a GM tech has to come to make the repair. BMW can also keep better control over the repair so they don't have to pay to do it twice. BMW is paying the regular shop labor rate and if the tech has a day (8 hours x $80 hour) plus the repair parts (just for the benchtime repair and not the actual r&r), it adds up pretty quickly. Same thing in the boating industry, the engine maker will send a warranty replacement lower unit in for the dealer to swap out at 2 hours labor instead of paying the dealer to rebuild it.

 

[cdotger]

boatman, You are 100 % correct.... cheaper for BMW to have dealership do a tranny swap

 

[Dimarc]

I have a BMW affected by the "recall". My dealer will be doing the tranny transplant. Several concerns: 1) If I did not know or suspect there was a problem, I would potentially have been stuck with a bum tranny. 2) The dealer must have known that or should have at least checked if my auto were affected since I bought it this month. 3) If am potentially getting a rebuilt, not brand new tranny to match my brand new car.

All this seems unacceptable for a BMW. I don’t think BMW should just swap and call it a deal. I think they owe us more—Longer warranty, refund, a new car swap perhaps??

 

[LarryE]

I have a BMW affected by the "recall". My dealer will be doing the tranny transplant. Several concerns: 1) If I did not know or suspect there was a problem, I would potentially have been stuck with a bum tranny. 2) The dealer must have known that or should have at least checked if my auto were affected since I bought it this month. 3) If am potentially getting a rebuilt, not brand new tranny to match my brand new car.

All this seems unacceptable for a BMW. I don’t think BMW should just swap and call it a deal. I think they owe us more—Longer warranty, refund, a new car swap perhaps??

You're absolutely right about 1 or 2. I can tell you that as for 3, all the tranny are rebuilt cause I went through this fight with them (mine had 1500 miles when discovered). THere are no new trannys ... they are all rebuilt ... although I have been reassured many times that the interior parts are new with the casing being the only real part that is reused.

If you are looking for some type of compensation, good luck. They will say that they stand behind their cars and support your car by its warranty. And to be frank, the only thing they are obligated to do by law is to provide warranty coverage ... which they are doing by replacing your tranny. And to refund or swap 20,000 cars just isn't gonna happen. Wish it would, because I'd much prefer to have a new car. The one case I remember reading about where a swap offer was made due to this problem was a situation where the dealer required the customer to pay a "depreciation fee" (can't remember how much ... maybe around $2K?) for the swap.

Good luck. Let us know how you make out.

 

[Car_54]

This is critical inofrmation

I have a BMW affected by the "recall". My dealer will be doing the tranny transplant. Several concerns: 1) If I did not know or suspect there was a problem, I would potentially have been stuck with a bum tranny. 2) The dealer must have known that or should have at least checked if my auto were affected since I bought it this month. 3) If am potentially getting a rebuilt, not brand new tranny to match my brand new car.

All this seems unacceptable for a BMW. I don’t think BMW should just swap and call it a deal. I think they owe us more—Longer warranty, refund, a new car swap perhaps??

Please confirm the date of manufacture for your vehicle. This can be determined by calling your dealer, calling BMWNA 800.831-1117 or on the sticker posted on the inside of your door.

You are not alone in your belief that this is unacceptable. You can be glad that at least in your case, BMW is no longer attempting to force the clutch patch thing on the unsuspecting buyers. It was only a temporary patch not a fix. Thank you for the requested information in advance.

 

[LarryE]

Re: This is critical inofrmation

Please confirm the date of manufacture for your vehicle. This can be determined by calling your dealer, calling BMWNA 800.831-1117 or on the sticker posted on the inside of your door.

You are not alone in your belief that this is unacceptable. You can be glad that at least in your case, BMW is no longer attempting to force the clutch patch thing on the unsuspecting buyers. It was only a temporary patch not a fix. Thank you for the requested information in advance.

I thought that we had all agreed to only state facts, Car_54. Dimarc, what Car_54 is telling you is not true. If your dealer offers you a clutch pack fix instead of a new tranny, it is a legitimate final fix, as there have been some on this board who have had it done and have had success with it.

Again ... Car_54 ... if you believe your statement to be true, please back it up with facts and please don't mislead people.

 

[Dimarc]

The sticker states 10/03. After I explained the symtoms, the dealer stated he needed to "check the tranny fluid first" to be sure this was not the problem. But after he did, he said he would order the tranny-- should be in in one week. He mentioned no other options.

I understand BMW’s legal obligation is to make the fix—but that does little for their reputation.

 

[cdotger]

Dimarc,

It is a shame that all of these threads have been tainted by lies and deception from some members.... Facts are that the clutch pack fix and replacement tranny are both valid fixes from BMW for your car.

The only diff is that the clutch pack fix is done at the dealership by a BMW certified tranny expert who is authorized to open a tranny (Dealerships are not allowed to open the tranny).

BMW has decided that it is easier (and cheaper) for them to replace the trannies at thefactory and send to the dealerships to "bolt in" not need for the experienced tranny tech.

All Trannies coming from the factory for repairs already include the same clutch pack fix.

If you have any questions please feel from to Private Message me or post back to this forum.

 

[BMW_Driver22]

Reread my words

I will share my BMWNA experience. After reading the TSB from earlier today, I called BMWNA to confirm what my service advisor was telling me was acceptable. After demonstrating my familiarity with the defect and sharing knowledge of the TSB I was switched to a supervisor. This guy wanted to know how I got a hold of the TSB bulletin and if I was an attorney/?\? Answer was no. After some time on hold supervisor came back on and said I quote "we are going to replace your transmission" that he has spoken with my dealership and everything is set they will call me to schedule the replacement. When I asked him why my dealer said the clucth pack is the same or better he said "BMW uses sealed transmissions" and that BMW does not advise "bench time" on them. Confirmed that the replacement would come from the factory and appologized for the service advisor not being "up to speed". I was blown away.

What is bench time?

Some have misinterpreted my posting. BMWNA supervisor said they use sealed transmissions and that they do not open them. BMWNA confirmed that "they will replace my transmission with a new one" and appologized for the dealer attempting to offer anything less. I confirmed that this was not just a reworked (clutch thing) transmission but ia transmission that was redesigned to correct the defect. For some on here to be speaking on behalf of BMW and spreading unsupported information is criminal. BMW has put in writing the corrective action.

 

[cdotger]

Dealerships do not open them correct... But there are authorized repair persons from BMW to open and replace the clutch packs in the affected trannies... Whether it be @ the dealership or in the factory... Sealed means that dealerships cannot service by themselves.

 

[cdotger]

If you ask BMW they will tell you the same thing.... I did.

 

[LarryE]

Re: Reread my words

Some have misinterpreted my posting. BMWNA supervisor said they use sealed transmissions and that they do not open them. BMWNA confirmed that "they will replace my transmission with a new one" and appologized for the dealer attempting to offer anything less. I confirmed that this was not just a reworked (clutch thing) transmission but ia transmission that was redesigned to correct the defect. For some on here to be speaking on behalf of BMW and spreading unsupported information is criminal. BMW has put in writing the corrective action.

I don't understand how you can continue to dispute this. There are people on this board who have had their clutch pack replaced with successful results, and who have been told by their dealers that it is the same fix. I understand what the TSB says. And yes ... it is preferable to use a sealed tranny ... and BMW does not like to crack them open to repair them. It is a more expensive repair, takes longer, and requires the presence of a GM-trained tech ... and there is a preference to have this kind of detailed work on the clutch pack done at a factory where the trannys are built/rebuilt rather than in the field. But the fact remains that the fix for this problem is contained in the clutch pack ... and it is and has been a viable fix for some. Maybe not the preferred fix, but viable. The "redesign" that you referred to is in the clutch pack. Can you offer any specific evidence from your dealer that proves otherwise? Where specifically is the redesign if it's not in the clutch pack? This would be valuable information for people on this board. If what you are saying it correct and supportable with facts, it seems to me that there would be people on this board who have had their clutch packs replaced who might want to take their car back to the dealer and insist on a new tranny. But PLEASE ... support your assertions with facts ... and in the process ... help your fellow Bimmers!

 

[Car_54]

R e a d i t s l o w l y

I don't understand how you can continue to dispute this. There are people on this board who have had their clutch pack replaced with successful results, and who have been told by their dealers that it is the same fix. I understand what the TSB says. And yes ... it is preferable to use a sealed tranny ... and BMW does not like to crack them open to repair them. It is a more expensive repair, takes longer, and requires the presence of a GM-trained tech ... and there is a preference to have this kind of detailed work on the clutch pack done at a factory where the trannys are built/rebuilt rather than in the field. But the fact remains that the fix for this problem is contained in the clutch pack ... and it is and has been a viable fix for some. Maybe not the preferred fix, but viable. The "redesign" that you referred to is in the clutch pack. Can you offer any specific evidence from your dealer that proves otherwise? Where specifically is the redesign if it's not in the clutch pack? This would be valuable information for people on this board. If what you are saying it correct and supportable with facts, it seems to me that there would be people on this board who have had their clutch packs replaced who might want to take their car back to the dealer and insist on a new tranny. But PLEASE ... support your assertions with facts ... and in the process ... help your fellow Bimmers!

The facts, in order:
This is a known safety defect NHTSA has opened an investigation
Software/clutch patch was temporary and abandoned by BMW months ago
Clutch patch loosens and begins to slip
Transmission replacement is not preferable it is mandated and it is in writing from BMW
It is false to argue the repair is more expensive than a trans replacement. It is not
Those who accepted the clutch patch are realizing the problem has returned, sorry
The SIB 24 07 03 is enough to demand full replacement

The ability to keep this cover up going is baffling. Unfortunately, some people have been burned and seemingly are unwilling to accept the mistake and cotinue to dialog this straight forward basically resolved issue. Given we have in writing BMW will replace the transmissions, the more important question is when definitively did BMW stop putting the defective transmissions in our cars?

 

[LipSmacknGOOd]

Let be reasonable

The facts, in order:
This is a known safety defect NHTSA has opened an investigation
Software/clutch patch was temporary and abandoned by BMW months ago
Clutch patch loosens and begins to slip
Transmission replacement is not preferable it is mandated and it is in writing from BMW
It is false to argue the repair is more expensive than a trans replacement. It is not
Those who accepted the clutch patch are realizing the problem has returned, sorry
The SIB 24 07 03 is enough to demand full replacement

The ability to keep this cover up going is baffling. Unfortunately, some people have been burned and seemingly are unwilling to accept the mistake and cotinue to dialog this straight forward basically resolved issue. Given we have in writing BMW will replace the transmissions, the more important question is when definitively did BMW stop putting the defective transmissions in our cars?

You get my vote. All others are merely making excuses and rationalizations. The only thing in writing is the TIS 24 07 03 from BMW saying replace the transmissions, (thank you for typing it out Importerofrecord) so where is the confusion? I want to know if this spring pulling out of my driveway I need to be concerned about getting creamed from behind.

 

[TIXXdriver]

We are in full agreement

Some have misinterpreted my posting. BMWNA supervisor said they use sealed transmissions and that they do not open them. BMWNA confirmed that "they will replace my transmission with a new one" and appologized for the dealer attempting to offer anything less. I confirmed that this was not just a reworked (clutch thing) transmission but ia transmission that was redesigned to correct the defect. For some on here to be speaking on behalf of BMW and spreading unsupported information is criminal. BMW has put in writing the corrective action.

Common sense makes you take what is in writing as fact. The rest is just heresay. If it makes it any easier, keep in mind the loudest fans of the clutch patch are also the ones that accepted the temporary fix. Simple human behavior to not want to admit being wrong.

 

[cdotger]

Please all you naysayers please tell us what is in the replacement tranny that makes it work so well?

Also please provide evidence that the clutch pack is temporary .... BMW and BMWNA say that fix is the same as replacement tranny.... Call and ask.

So what is in the replacement tranny then? TSB tells you issue is with clutch pack.

Different ways to fix the same problem... Don't be so closed minded.

Please bestow upon us your knowledge..... Cause regardless if you believe it or not I have friends @ BMW and you are all wrong....

So please share your knowledge..... PROVE IT

I cannot in my case due to confidentiality but I sure would love to....

But honestly you can't teach common sense.

Does car_54 even own a BMW.... Or is he a lawyer out for blood [???1]

 

[LarryE]

Re: We are in full agreement

Common sense makes you take what is in writing as fact. The rest is just heresay. If it makes it any easier, keep in mind the loudest fans of the clutch patch are also the ones that accepted the temporary fix. Simple human behavior to not want to admit being wrong.

OK ... so ... if "common sense makes you take what is in writing as fact", where is the writing in an official form from BMW to support:

- Software/clutch patch was temporary and abandoned by BMW months ago
- Clutch patch loosens and begins to slip

?

You've gone through great pains to repeatedly provide this TSB. But where is this other speculation that you now are bringing to the good people who read this board coming from? And how do you explain that the clutch pack fix is not loosened up for the people on this board who have had it. And if your reasoning is sound about not wanting to admit that one is wrong, how do you explain that I had my tranny replaced, and support the concept that the clutch pack fix is the same thing because that's what my dealer told me?