Stop complainng about steptronic and...

TIXXdriver · Mar 9, 2004

This is incorrect

cdotger said:

This is very simple. BMW has a limited number of people in the US who are authorized to crack open a tranny. Normal dealerships do not have this ability. BMW sends out a TSB to it's dealerships to replace trannies that have steptronic issue... For people persistent or high profile customers refusing to wait, BMW is sending a Engineer out to dealership to crack the tranny and replace the clutch pack.... So, It is IMPOSSIBLE for BMW to send these engineers all over the US to replace clutch packs. So TSB says to replace tranny that are already repaired and shipped to dealership. Dealership can then install with no outside help... It is really simple. TSB will not list all available options... only the option the BMW wants the dealerships to do. It is cheaper for BMW to fix trannies in one area and send trannies out then to ship people all over the US to fix by hand. Again, The fix in these new replacement trannies is the clutch pack, so whether it is done in the dealership or @ a factory it is the same thing. I know many people @ my dealership and these are the facts.
__________________

Who in their sane mind would take your word over a written technical service bulletin from BMW? I now believe there is a concerted effort to keep people from exercising their legal right to have full disclosure. WHat is wrong about filing a complaint with NHTSA if you feel that is the way to proceed? Why are you so insistent on stating things about your "BMW connections" and familiarity with dealership owners and their wives? You have stated in the past "afew of us are working closely with BMWNA" I find it all quite odd. You have been asked fairly to support your assertions. Others have provided official documents from BMW. You choose to ignore those questions or one your pals jumps in to defend or attempts to discredit the person posing the question. My ability to count on this board for unbiased independent thinking has been severely damaged.

LarryE · Mar 9, 2004

Re: This is incorrect

TIXXdriver said:

cdotger said:

This is very simple. BMW has a limited number of people in the US who are authorized to crack open a tranny. Normal dealerships do not have this ability. BMW sends out a TSB to it's dealerships to replace trannies that have steptronic issue... For people persistent or high profile customers refusing to wait, BMW is sending a Engineer out to dealership to crack the tranny and replace the clutch pack.... So, It is IMPOSSIBLE for BMW to send these engineers all over the US to replace clutch packs. So TSB says to replace tranny that are already repaired and shipped to dealership. Dealership can then install with no outside help... It is really simple. TSB will not list all available options... only the option the BMW wants the dealerships to do. It is cheaper for BMW to fix trannies in one area and send trannies out then to ship people all over the US to fix by hand. Again, The fix in these new replacement trannies is the clutch pack, so whether it is done in the dealership or @ a factory it is the same thing. I know many people @ my dealership and these are the facts.
__________________

Who in their sane mind would take your word over a written technical service bulletin from BMW? I now believe there is a concerted effort to keep people from exercising their legal right to have full disclosure. WHat is wrong about filing a complaint with NHTSA if you feel that is the way to proceed? Why are you so insistent on stating things about your "BMW connections" and familiarity with dealership owners and their wives? You have stated in the past "afew of us are working closely with BMWNA" I find it all quite odd. You have been asked fairly to support your assertions. Others have provided official documents from BMW. You choose to ignore those questions or one your pals jumps in to defend or attempts to discredit the person posing the question. My ability to count on this board for unbiased independent thinking has been severely damaged.

Click to expand...

I respect your opinion, but you also are being very closed-minded. Not always is everything in life documented. There is nothing wrong with filing a complaint. If that is your determined approach, that's fine ... good luck ... I can respect that. But what he says is absolutely true. I was offered the clutch pack fix at first also. The fix to this problem is actually in the clutch pack. The new tranny contains the new clutch pack. It's very simple. It is absolutely true that the clutch pack replacement is more expensive for BMW. It requires a GM-trained tranny tech to be brought onsite and takes 2 days instead of 1 because the tranny needs to be opened and reassembled.

Can you tell me why you disagree so strongly? Can you tell me what proof you have that this is not true (and please don't tell me the TSB cause the TSB doesn't go in to this level of detail)? Have you discussed this with a qualified BMW repair tech or your service dept?

cdotger · Mar 9, 2004

TIXXDriver..... What info do you have to claim that my statements above are incorrect?

Can you please provide docs? (besides the vague TSB)

Look guys do whatever you want.... I have never in any of my posts told anyone not to log a complaint with NHTSA. I think it is very bad for BMW to be selling cars with the issue and not disclosing it to the consumer. I have been working this issue since Sep with BMW... How long have you guys been working this????? I know the history... I have some inside info also. I cannot provide docs and or names. I think we all agree that BMW is doing theire best to cover-up. I am doing my best to try and give info to help out others.

I think I was the first person to even mention a clutch pack fix on this board quite a while ago, so I must be getting correct info from somewhere.

Know do you guys believe that it might be remotely possible that there was work done before that TSB came out?

Also might you believe to be possible that BMW has decided that it is cheaper for them to repair the Trannies in one place and send to dealer to bolt in, instead of sending a trained tech all over the US?

Makes sense to me....

Here is the history as I know it.... Kirby has been working this a long time also and can confirm.

1. Original fix was a software patch (did not work)

2. Clutch Pack and Tranny swap are one in the same. Whether the tranny swap is done in the dealership by a Certified BMW tech (dealership cannot do) or it comes in your holy grail of a reman tranny.... THEY ARE THE SAME THING...

I understand that a piece of paper and a TSB are important to people that have not been involved very long....

But other members discount the members that have received Clutch Pack fixes by saying that they do not have a sanctioned repair and it will only work temporarily, and these claims are false.

But this is the history and the facts as I have been told and understand them....

If you want to go to court and or sue, by all means do it... I do not care. But please have the correct info before you do.

Kirby · Mar 9, 2004

cdotger said:

Confirmed, and I also can confirm as well that their is additional supporting information from others who do not want to be identified for privacy reasons. I am honoring their privacy.

Some individuals thrive on controversy, accusations, self-induced feeding frenzies and name calling to avoid accepting published facts. Note that originally the frenzy was accusations about BMW not addressing the problem. Now that there is proof BMW is addressing the problem, the frenzy is over HOW the problem is addressed. The clutch pack solution was clearly approved by BMW on a per case basis, the transmission swap is the formal recommendation. Why are individuals who are eligible for the transmission swap, or better yet, don't even OWN a car with the problem, so agitated about the clutch pack replacement?

In the end, after much anguish, agitation and making fools of themselves on this and other boards, they will STILL end up with one of two basic results:
1. A transmission replaced under warranty by BMW.
2. A cancelled BMW order and some other brand of vehicle in their garage.

Car_54 · Mar 9, 2004

Insanity

Kirby said:

WHO ARE YOU? Why would anyone believe you? Who do you speak for? Who's privacy are you protecting? We do not care about your own singular fix .
There are those of us that want to understand what happened, why and how was it corrected. We want answers not excuses from some nefarious individual posting on a message board. NHTSA , Office of Defect Investigation is on the case with the truth to be revealed soon. It is noted that you and others have moved away from saying the clutch patch fix was correct. Now you say the formal recommendation is the trans replacement. For gods sake just stop. The gig is up! [thumb]

Remember **over 20,000 automobiles are impacted by this defect **
And remember there is a third result that can be realized [hihi]

Kirby · Mar 9, 2004

Re: Just say NO to clutch pack temporary fix

Car_54 said:

By your own post shown above referencing the TIS, you have read what happened, the why and the how. Now you post that you want to understand what happened, why and how it was corrected. Is the TIS that you read a week ago now unclear or wrong? Why is it that you are arguing in circles?

I am me, speaking for myself and my own experiences, as I have always stated in the past. Funny how my "singular fix" has been performed at least several hundred "singular" times.

I am not protecting anyone, that's yet ANOTHER of your wild assumptions. As I said, I am honoring someone's request for privacy. I asked the individual to visit this board and post her qualifications and information just over a week ago. When she came here and saw the inflammatory posts by several individuals, including yours, she EMailed me and said that she didn't want her reputation and information to be twisted, distorted and misused by such individuals.

You are responsible for this person choosing to not provide the information.

I even eluded to this a few days ago:
The best part is that your character is being judged in this public forum by the wild accusations and assumptions you make in your posts.

As far as why would anyone believe me, it's because others have had the exact same experience as me, and therefore know that we speak the truth collectively. Beyond that, I have been a member here for over a year, participate in many discussions, contribute information where I can and ask questions when I don't know something. I make an effort to contribute positively to the community (maybe with the exception of a few jokes in the Lounge area [:D]

).

So, where are your positive contributions to the board? All I have read is repetitive, circular FUD arguments from you, criticism, name calling and more than one person asking why you are so confrontational. I now look forward to the daily laughs I get when I read your latest post.

When the BMW controversy has gotten old for you, and you move on to the next frenzied crisis in your life, we'll still be here enjoying our Bimmers and learning from and helping each other.

cdotger · Mar 9, 2004

Car_54,

With your Vast area of expertise in this problem. What is the dif between the clutch pack replacement and the tranny swap?

Please explain to us the difference. What does the reman tranny have that is diff... Please explain in detail and state your sources..

We are all anxiously waiting......

Kirby has a source and I have a source that state otherwise... Where does your expertise come from?

We want names...

Car_54 · Mar 9, 2004

You are revealing yourself to thinking beings as fraudulent

cdotger said:

The source is BMW. The technical service bulletin is available here:http://www.bmwtis.com
The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration is here:http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/tsbsearch.cfm

You also might pay attention to national news as this coverup is growing legs.
"The official sanctioned solution for defective steptronic is the replacement of the transmission"

At this point I wish to applaud the administrators of this important thread to continue to promote honest information.

cdotger · Mar 9, 2004

so you have no sources other than the media... and you think you know it all.... really funny. And the media tells the whole story right?

A little bit of knowledge is very dangerous....

You have never answered the question as to what the diff is between the clutch pack swap and the reman tranny?

Would you care to answer that?

So you have a link for that one also?

My guess is you will play the TSB card again... Pathetic.

cdotger · Mar 9, 2004

Now to some info: Interestingly enough I just found some info that this is not the first time that BMW has had an issue with the first clutch pack...

http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylor/BMWText/technical/AutoGearboxZF-HP22.html

Take it for what it is worth.... Just something I ran into.

LarryE · Mar 9, 2004

cdotger ... don't waste any more of your time. He knows he's wrong. Now he's actually asking the forum moderator to intervene and tell him that you're misleading the forum. Remind you of being in 3rd grad a bit?

It's exactly the same as if you had a valve problem with your engine. BMW could replace the entire engine ... or could take apart the engine and perform a valve job. The TSB might recommend to replace the engine. But we all know that a valve job would accomplish the exact same thing. I will grant them one thing. At least as of the time of the TSB, it would appear that BMW prefers and recommends that the tranny be replaced rather than the clutch pack. That doesn't mean, however, that the clutch pack isn't a perfectly viable solution. You and I know that it would accomplish the same thing. But you will never get these others to come to grips with that. So be it.

Car_54 · Mar 10, 2004

An analogy

TIXXdriver said:

cdotger said:

This is very simple. BMW has a limited number of people in the US who are authorized to crack open a tranny. Normal dealerships do not have this ability. BMW sends out a TSB to it's dealerships to replace trannies that have steptronic issue... For people persistent or high profile customers refusing to wait, BMW is sending a Engineer out to dealership to crack the tranny and replace the clutch pack.... So, It is IMPOSSIBLE for BMW to send these engineers all over the US to replace clutch packs. So TSB says to replace tranny that are already repaired and shipped to dealership. Dealership can then install with no outside help... It is really simple. TSB will not list all available options... only the option the BMW wants the dealerships to do. It is cheaper for BMW to fix trannies in one area and send trannies out then to ship people all over the US to fix by hand. Again, The fix in these new replacement trannies is the clutch pack, so whether it is done in the dealership or @ a factory it is the same thing. I know many people @ my dealership and these are the facts.
__________________

Who in their sane mind would take your word over a written technical service bulletin from BMW? I now believe there is a concerted effort to keep people from exercising their legal right to have full disclosure. WHat is wrong about filing a complaint with NHTSA if you feel that is the way to proceed? Why are you so insistent on stating things about your "BMW connections" and familiarity with dealership owners and their wives? You have stated in the past "afew of us are working closely with BMWNA" I find it all quite odd. You have been asked fairly to support your assertions. Others have provided official documents from BMW. You choose to ignore those questions or one your pals jumps in to defend or attempts to discredit the person posing the question. My ability to count on this board for unbiased independent thinking has been severely damaged.

Click to expand...

I am as baffled as you are. Think of it this way.... you have a pain in your gut. You go to the doctor for a diagnosis. The doctor says you need a transplant operation to be cured. You go home and discuss your situation with some "friends". Neighbor says try accupuncture, sister says aroma therapy, mother in law says stop drinking beer, coach down the block says toughen up and walk it off...... then a fool on a message board pretending to know more than the doctor responsible for fixing your ills says "lets try some sotware upgrades if that doesn't work lets play with your clutch patch and torque converter for a couple of months" If you survive the tinkering maybe we can get that transplant for you later.

**DO NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING LESS THAN HAVIONG A TRANSMISSION TRANSPLANT**

LipSmacknGOOd · Mar 10, 2004

Re: An analogy

Car_54 said:

That was over the top hysterical!!! You have taken this terrible problem and found some humor. Good for you! Your analogy is understood and well taken. I will go to the source for my answers. Gosh that cracked me up. [:)]

TIXXdriver · Mar 10, 2004

Now that was funny!!

Re: An analogy
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Car_54
I am as baffled as you are. Think of it this way.... you have a pain in your gut. You go to the doctor for a diagnosis. The doctor says you need a transplant operation to be cured. You go home and discuss your situation with some "friends". Neighbor says try accupuncture, sister says aroma therapy, mother in law says stop drinking beer, coach down the block says toughen up and walk it off...... then a fool on a message board pretending to know more than the doctor responsible for fixing your ills says "lets try some sotware upgrades if that doesn't work lets play with your clutch patch and torque converter for a couple of months" If you survive the tinkering maybe we can get that transplant for you later.

**DO NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING LESS THAN HAVING A TRANSMISSION TRANSPLANT**
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That was over the top hysterical!!! You have taken this terrible problem and found some humor. Good for you! Your analogy is understood and well taken. I will go to the source for my answers. Gosh that cracked me up.
_____________
You nailed it. I will rely on "Doctor BMW" to confirm the correct treatment for my sick transmission. Afterall, if they are the ones ultimately responsible AND liable. Sure would be tough trying to chase down a message board IP for damages. Car_54 you made HUMPDAY a little funnier. Thanks! [thumb]

BMW_Driver22 · Mar 10, 2004

Re: An analogy

Car_54 said:

What are you some kind of friggin comedian? Your wit and insight must make dealing with the assaults by your "friends" on here more bearable. So what is the latest? Have you been contacted by NHTSA like the others? There is a questionaire sent out after the initial filing of the complaint. Office of defect Investigation does not waste much time.

Again, thanks for the laugh! [:D]

cdotger · Mar 10, 2004

Do what you want.... I am all fixed and happy.... I done. and I know what the truth is so later.

cdotger · Mar 10, 2004

One last thing... I invite you all to ask your local BMW dealership shop foreman if anything I said is untrue.... If they have been working the problem from the beginning they will confirm all that I have said.... So please go ahead and call.

Car_54 · Mar 10, 2004

Re: Re: An analogy

Re: An analogy
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Car_54
I am as baffled as you are. Think of it this way.... you have a pain in your gut. You go to the doctor for a diagnosis. The doctor says you need a transplant operation to be cured. You go home and discuss your situation with some "friends". Neighbor says try accupuncture, sister says aroma therapy, mother in law says stop drinking beer, coach down the block says toughen up and walk it off...... then a fool on a message board pretending to know more than the doctor responsible for fixing your ills says "lets try some sotware upgrades if that doesn't work lets play with your clutch patch and torque converter for a couple of months" If you survive the tinkering maybe we can get that transplant for you later.

**DO NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING LESS THAN HAVING A TRANSMISSION TRANSPLANT**

BMW_Driver22 said:

---------------------------------------------
Had no idea the truth would seem so preposterous to so many. I genuinely think the analogy is not dissimilar to our defective steptronic problem. To answer your question: Yes
NHTSA questionnaire completed and returned. The questions go back to before purchase to when problem was realized, what was the dealers response etc. Most importantly they ask if you feel safe driving the vehicle. The instructions say that all of the information being gathered is to "ensure the safe operation of vehicles on public roadways".

**Remember to laugh often... life is short** [wave]

LipSmacknGOOd · Mar 10, 2004

How long

Car_54 said:

Re: An analogy
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Car_54
I am as baffled as you are. Think of it this way.... you have a pain in your gut. You go to the doctor for a diagnosis. The doctor says you need a transplant operation to be cured. You go home and discuss your situation with some "friends". Neighbor says try accupuncture, sister says aroma therapy, mother in law says stop drinking beer, coach down the block says toughen up and walk it off...... then a fool on a message board pretending to know more than the doctor responsible for fixing your ills says "lets try some sotware upgrades if that doesn't work lets play with your clutch patch and torque converter for a couple of months" If you survive the tinkering maybe we can get that transplant for you later.

**DO NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING LESS THAN HAVING A TRANSMISSION TRANSPLANT**

---------------------------------------------
Had no idea the truth would seem so preposterous to so many. I genuinely think the analogy is not dissimilar to our defective steptronic problem. To answer your question: Yes
NHTSA questionnaire completed and returned. The questions go back to before purchase to when problem was realized, what was the dealers response etc. Most importantly they ask if you feel safe driving the vehicle. The instructions say that all of the information being gathered is to "ensure the safe operation of vehicles on public roadways".

**Remember to laugh often... life is short**

How long did it take for the questionnaire arrive after filing your complaint with NHTSA?

cdotger · Mar 10, 2004

Re: Blah Blah Blah Blah...Nope No Siree Blah

Car_54 said:

Please also keep in mind... that car_54 makes a false statement above....

"Clutch Patch will continue to slip and get increasingly worse."

This is untrue... and there are a number of people on this board that have the clutch pack fix.

Car_54 if you have any sources for your statement please let us know...

In all of my posts after that, I was just trying to get the point across that car_54's statements about the clutch pack fix are false.

I am always asked to prove my statements... So I ask the same from you.

Stop complainng about steptronic and...

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